So, I've read what seems like all the opinions out there about the Duncan Designed Jag pickups....

[optofonik]

They get good reviews but most refer to them as "close enough", some mention the neck pickup being hotter than the original spec, and a few are less impressed. Since my intention was to get a right proper Jag without spending $2500.00 I decided to go with the "vintage-correct" Fender Pure Vintage '65 Jaguar Pickup Set due to many more opinions about how they are manufactured to the original 1965 specs. I've also ordered an American tremelo system since the Squier system is consistently mentioned as being made of thinner metal.

I'll break out the soldering kit this afternoon, it's a pretty simple job. I have to mention that the joints from the factory are less than impressive.

Now, she waits for the NPD day post ....

 

[lineboat]

Cool. I never looked anything up or put a meter on anything, but I always thought the pups in my Squier sounded better than my Classic Player or any other Jag. I'm curious to see what you think....

 

[Nick Evans]

Hi optophonic, I have got a mij fender jaguar I bought it many years before the squier became available. Had I a crystal ball I would of waited. My stock pickups were very feeble. So I replaced them with Seymour Duncan hot pickups (it needed all the help possible) ,and it was the best thing I ever done to the jag. If you haven't done so already , I highly recommend you change out the stock bridge and replace it with a Mustang bridge , it is a direct swap. It will save a lot of woes later on when the screws decide to undo by themselves !! Nice colour btw. Please do tell about the pickup swap [emoji106]

 

[optofonik]

Cool. I never looked anything up or put a meter on anything, but I always thought the pups in my Squier sounded better than my Classic Player or any other Jag. I'm curious to see what you think....

I'm going on faith. I've read enough opinions about the DD PUs, the AV PUs, and the AVRI PUs to believe that these are the right choice. I'm simply trying to build a foundation to go from that starts with the most authentic electronic specs I can determine without spending $2500.00 (or $1000.00 if the road worn lacquer are actually original specs). I'm okay with the non-authentic, modern neck, however.

The mods are all well researched and I would no doubt be able to break even if I ever sold it (sans labor) but I really don't intend on selling it. It's naive in a way for sure but I would be hard pressed to believe so many can be wrong about the specs being as accurate as can be achieved in 2016. By the time I'm done replacing the pickups and the tremolo I'll have spent about $600.00 total, still more than $400.00 less than a road worn lacquer (not my cup of tea) when factoring in a modern replacement neck.

And the bonus?

It will still be a Squier series.

 

[optofonik]

Hi optophonic, I have got a mij fender jaguar I bought it many years before the squier became available. Had I a crystal ball I would of waited. My stock pickups were very feeble. So I replaced them with Seymour Duncan hot pickups (it needed all the help possible) ,and it was the best thing I ever done to the jag. If you haven't done so already , I highly recommend you change out the stock bridge and replace it with a Mustang bridge , it is a direct swap. It will save a lot of woes later on when the screws decide to undo by themselves !! Nice colour btw. Please do tell about the pickup swap [emoji106]

Believe it or not, the stock bridge is part of what I want out of a Jaguar.

 

[Lone Woof]

I have a Squier Jag (for sale) and actually thought the pickups sounded great, even with a lot of overdrive. I think that bridge is part of the Jag sound, but I play mostly play with my fingers and my thumb was constantly popping the low E string out of the saddle grooves. Even with 11 gauge strings. I'll bet you play with a pick, right? With a pick the low E would mostly stay in the saddle groove. What gauge strings do you use on it?

I'm only selling the Squier because I binged on a Johnny Marr Jag. Liked the whole Jaguar thing so much I went for the JMarr version.

 

[optofonik]

I have a Squier Jag (for sale) and actually thought the pickups sounded great, even with a lot of overdrive. I think that bridge is part of the Jag sound, but I play mostly play with my fingers and my thumb was constantly popping the low E string out of the saddle grooves. Even with 11 gauge strings. I'll bet you play with a pick, right? With a pick the low E would mostly stay in the saddle groove. What gauge strings do you use on it?

I'm only selling the Squier because I binged on a Johnny Marr Jag. Liked the whole Jaguar thing so much I went for the JMarr version.

I don't have an opinion on the stock pups beyond "they sound fine". Its not my intent to improve the sound but to get as close to the original as possible without losing the modern neck and frets. Until recently the AVRI Jag was the only model available with all original specs. The only other one that came close was the Squier due to it's proper bridge position; it's essentially a vintage style Jag with a modern neck (w/ truss rod adjust at the top) and pups. Sure, electronics and tuners are "cheaper" as well but those are relatively small things.

Apparently the Fender branded "Lacquer" version is now the go-to for those who want the added authenticity of a 7.5 radius and vintage frets. However, the pickup poles on the Lacquer version aren't staggered and, as I understand it, a 7.5 radius neck should be accompanied by staggered poles. Not all 60s Jags have staggered poles though so its a matter open to debate. The Lacquer version is also only available in red; I like my surf green.

 

[optofonik]

Cool. I never looked anything up or put a meter on anything, but I always thought the pups in my Squier sounded better than my Classic Player or any other Jag. I'm curious to see what you think....

Well, I played for a bit after installing the Pure Vintage pups and if someone had a gun to my head and said, "Tell me the difference between them, dadgummit, or I'll blow yer head clean off!", I guess I'd have to come up with an answer. Again, the DD pickups sounded fine to me (but I'm definitely no expert). However, I think the Pure Vintage pickups sound nicer. After hearing the PVs I could say that, perhaps, the Duncan Designed pups sound a bit harsher in the treble, not quite shrill but close to the borderline of piercing. I know, it's what a lot of people say about the Duncan Designed pickups so, nothing new, but even being no expert, I kind of agree.

There might be very specific reason for this, however, so read on if you're interested.



I looked at the instruction sheet that came with the Pure Vintage pickups and it indicates that the pup with the yellow positive wire is to be installed at the bridge position and the pup with the white positive wire is to be installed at the neck position. When I removed the Duncan Designed pups, however, I noticed that the pup with the yellow positive was installed at the neck and the pup with the black positive was installed at the bridge. This is opposite to the instructions for the Pure Vintage pups. The PVs are different pups from a different manufacturer though so, no worries, right?

Both PV pups measure at 6.8 so it doesn't actually doesn't matter at which position either is installed. I decided to follow the convention of the stock pups; yellow positive in the neck position and white positive at the bridge. As stated above, they measure the same so it won't matter. Again, no worries, right?

Thing is, my career is in production sound. Details count and not paying attention to a particular detail can be a "career decisions"; as a result, I pay attention to details. So, actually... yes, worries. Not so much worries, really, but it was clear I needed to look into things further. First I broke out the multimeter and measured the Duncan Designed pickups. I got this: 11.6 for the neck and 5.8 for the bridge. Might this explain some things regarding how some people think the stock pups sound harsh? Second, I compared notes from Seymour Duncan and Fender.

Take a look at these and what do you notice?













In Seymour Duncan's world the pup with the yellow positive goes in the neck position. In Fender's world, it goes in the bridge. So, if you're some poor underpaid dude in the third world putting together a guitar made by Fender (under the Squier brand), that uses Seymour Duncan (designed) pickups, whose world are you working in? If my guitar is an indication, it's Seymour Duncan's. It should have been Fender's so the hotter pickup ends up in the bridge position instead of the neck, yes? An easy mistake to make, I think.

One other small thing I noticed about the DD pups was the claws were also reversed, the tall one is at low "E" and the short one is at high "E".

 

[Lone Woof]

I know what you're saying about the bridge position. I tried the Classic Player version with the bridge shifted forward for a better break angle over the bridge and it didn't quite have the Jag vibe. By that I mean the short decay of notes and the overtones.

I do think Fender needs to redesign the bridge along the lines of the Staytrem bridge. Mustang saddles and individual saddle height adjustment. Or at least make the threaded grooves on the traditional Jag deeper.

 

[nickmsmith]

Duncan designed Jag pickups sound great. I won't change mine. Sound great with overdrive, too.

 

[Nick Evans]

Believe it or not, the stock bridge is part of what I want out of a Jaguar.

Good grief! The headaches I had dropping lacquer in the threads to stop them moving. The mustang bridge still sound the same just minus the headache. Hopefully your Squier bridge is manufactured to tighter tolerances.

Oh one more thing, the original USA had a string mute built into the bridge and early mij Jags also had brass earthing plates in cavities .I don't know how far you want to go modding. There was a site I have lost showing how to make your own.
Good luck [emoji106]

 

[Nick Evans]

Well, I played for a bit after installing the Pure Vintage pups and if someone had a gun to my head and said, "Tell me the difference between them, dadgummit, or I'll blow yer head clean off!", I guess I'd have to come up with an answer. Again, the DD pickups sounded fine to me (but I'm definitely no expert). However, I think the Pure Vintage pickups sound nicer. After hearing the PVs I could say that, perhaps, the Duncan Designed pups sound a bit harsher in the treble, not quite shrill but close to the borderline of piercing. I know, it's what a lot of people say about the Duncan Designed pickups so, nothing new, but even being no expert, I kind of agree.

There might be very specific reason for this, however, so read on if you're interested.



I looked at the instruction sheet that came with the Pure Vintage pickups and it indicates that the pup with the yellow positive wire is to be installed at the bridge position and the pup with the white positive wire is to be installed at the neck position. When I removed the Duncan Designed pups, however, I noticed that the pup with the yellow positive was installed at the neck and the pup with the black positive was installed at the bridge. This is opposite to the instructions for the Pure Vintage pups. The PVs are different pups from a different manufacturer though so, no worries, right?

Both PV pups measure at 6.8 so it doesn't actually doesn't matter at which position either is installed. I decided to follow the convention of the stock pups; yellow positive in the neck position and white positive at the bridge. As stated above, they measure the same so it won't matter. Again, no worries, right?

Thing is, my career is in production sound. Details count and not paying attention to a particular detail can be a "career decisions"; as a result, I pay attention to details. So, actually... yes, worries. Not so much worries, really, but it was clear I needed to look into things further. First I broke out the multimeter and measured the Duncan Designed pickups. I got this: 11.6 for the neck and 5.8 for the bridge. Might this explain some things regarding how some people think the stock pups sound harsh? Second, I compared notes from Seymour Duncan and Fender.

Take a look at these and what do you notice?



View attachment 203297





View attachment 203300



In Seymour Duncan's world the pup with the yellow positive goes in the neck position. In Fender's world, it goes in the bridge. So, if you're some poor underpaid dude in the third world putting together a guitar made by Fender (under the Squier brand), that uses Seymour Duncan (designed) pickups, whose world are you working in? If my guitar is an indication, it's Seymour Duncan's. It should have been Fender's so the hotter pickup ends up in the bridge position instead of the neck, yes? An easy mistake to make, I think.

One other small thing I noticed about the DD pups was the claws were also reversed, the tall one is at low "E" and the short one is at high "E".

The hotter pickup definitely goes in the bridge. Like you say thats where the problem lays!

 

[optofonik]

I know what you're saying about the bridge position. I tried the Classic Player version with the bridge shifted forward for a better break angle over the bridge and it didn't quite have the Jag vibe. By that I mean the short decay of notes and the overtones.

I do think Fender needs to redesign the bridge along the lines of the Staytrem bridge. Mustang saddles and individual saddle height adjustment. Or at least make the threaded grooves on the traditional Jag deeper.

I wasn't on about the bridge itself, I don't want to change it from stock. "Bridge position" refers to the pickup's position on the body, i.e., the pickup closest to the bridge is referred to as being in the "bridge position" and the pickup closest to the neck is referred to as being in the "neck position"

 

[optofonik]

The hotter pickup definitely goes in the bridge. Like you say thats where the problem lays!

Someone on another forum stated that they are going to meter their pups and reverse them if they find the the neck pickup is hotter than the bridge. If it's a model-wide thing then I imagine this is the "modified" part of "Vintage Modified". However, I've read that VMJM pups follow standard convention with the bridge position being the hotter of the two and measure about the same as the Jag pups, 6k/11k, neck/bridge. That make s me wonder.

 

[Lone Woof]

I wasn't on about the bridge itself, I don't want to change it from stock. "Bridge position" refers to the pickup's position on the body, i.e., the pickup closest to the bridge is referred to as being in the "bridge position" and the pickup closest to the neck is referred to as being in the "neck position"

Der, I realize that. Just thought you were referring to the position of the bridge on the VM Jag.

 

[optofonik]

Der, I realize that. Just thought you were referring to the position of the bridge on the VM Jag.

I see. Funny, the position of the bride in relation to the tremolo is actually the primary reason for buying the VM. Coincidence? I think not!
Until the Lacquer came out the only JM or Jag that got the bridge/tremolo relationship "vintage corrrect" were the VM and AVRI.

 

[Lone Woof]

I see. Funny, the position of the bride in relation to the tremolo is actually the primary reason for buying the VM. Coincidence? I think not!
Until the Lacquer came out the only JM or Jag that got the bridge/tremolo relationship "vintage corrrect" were the VM and AVRI.

Yep, it's why I got the VM. But then I went and got the Johnny Marr.

You interested in a spare VM?