Wrapping strings with locking tuners?

Wound_Up

You can call me Duane 😁
Jan 23, 2020
5,006
NW LA
I only wrap high E and B to avoid slippage
Slippage shouldn't happen without wraps. Tuners are designed with slippage in mind. So much so that they specifically designed them so that the gears WILL NOT slip unless they're damaged or worn. It physically isn't possible unless you're using cheap tuners that don't copy the gear design 99% of tuners use. Look up the history of Schaller(I think? Whoever made the tuners everybody used in the 60s & 70s) and their tuners. It's been part of the basic design since the very beginning.

download (15).jpeg

Edit: yep. Schaller M6 tuners, developed in the 50s, were "the world's first fully encapsulated and self-locking precision mechanism." That's what's shown above. The cut of the gears allows them to lock so they can't rotate backwards without turning the tuning key.


That "self-locking precision mechanism" they're referring to is the gears. They lock so that the strings can't unwind and the tuning machines themselves can't slip. The string might slip around the post but the tuning machine itself locks tight so it can't slip.
 
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Believer7713

The Pink Bunnyman Frankenstein
Silver Member
Dec 27, 2016
17,413
KC
Have you tried in on an SG? Just curious because a lot of people on the ESG sister site complain about neck dive with the Grover rotomatic and Grover lockers.

That's because SG's are a very poor guitar design. It's not the fault of the tuners.

JMO/YMMV

Such a poor design it's been in continuous production, more or less, for sixty plus years, is Gibson's best ever seller, is / was the preferred guitar of so many highly successful musicians, has inspired numerous lookalikes...
All in all the SG had one fault IMO. The placement of the north strap button was/is horrible. By the design it is too close to the center of the body makin it neck heavy. Every one I ever played was neck heavy and wanted to take a header off of my shoulder like a professional cliff diver. I didn't need locking tuners for that to happen either . They all had the standard tuners that came with them. The only other guitar that was that bad was the Jackson Kelly KE3 that I owned back in 2012. Again it was due to the north strap button being too close to the center of the body. The Strat, Tele, and many other guitars with a longer top horn, where the strap mounts on many, moves the center of gravity away from the neck and more into the body making it balance much better.
 

Boubou

Senior Stratmaster
Gold Supporting Member
Jan 6, 2009
4,246
Montreal
I agree with you but I'm not wrong. I did a comparison last year and weighed 6 sets of tuners. (I posted a link to that thread earlier)
The lightest weight set, believe it or not, was a set of locking Sperzel tuners. The heaviest were a set of Schaller lockers. The difference from lightest to heaviest was around 5 ounces total IIRC. The difference between the non locking sets and most locking sets was less than 2 ounces. I also weighed them just as they would be in the headstock so if they had set screws to hold them straight they were on the scale too.
Ok, I thought you were talking about tuners weight and not the difference in weight.
My only experience with locking tuners is swapping PRS tuners for PRS locking tuners, they are exactly the same except for a hole and thread on the shaft and the locking nut, so they don’t have much difference in weight Other than the added weight of the locking screw.
And no, I am not going to take them off to weigh them, I don’t feel any neck dive, end of story.
I know we agree on that.
P.S.: 1.25 oz for a Snark tuner.
I must be much stronger than i thought to have a headstock tuner and locking tuners and not feel neck dive!:cool:
 

Mouse

The Knees of Rock
Apr 25, 2012
23,924
New Jersey
I have locking tuners on both my PRS and Charvel. No wraps for either of them on any string. I pull the string straight through as tight as I can and lock it. After tuning I end up with maybe a half a wind or so depending on the string. I’ve never experienced any tuning issues or slippage even if tuning the guitars down a whole step.
 

Stone

Most Honored Senior Member
Dec 17, 2019
7,567
Mean Streets
My LTD and Charvel have locking tuners, really convenient love them and no i don't wrap and no tuning stability issues as well,my Godin on the other hand does not have locking tuners and no tuning stability issues as well, just less convenient for string changes
 

ThreeChordWonder

Senior Stratmaster
Dec 2, 2020
4,090
Cypress TX
All . The Strat, Tele, and many other guitars with a longer top horn, where the strap mounts on many, moves the center of gravity away from the neck and more into the body making it balance much better.
More wood (and therefore weight) nearer the neck moves the center of gravity away from the neck? I dont think so.

Rather, methinks, the greater distance between the strap buttons increases the stability, much like wider spaced landing gear does on a plane. But only when using a strap, of course.

I think the real issue is that the thinner body (compared to a Les Paul, for example) means there's less weight at the bridge end to counteract the weight of the neck, shifting the center of gravity towards the neck. Moreover, the SG originally came with a rather sturdy tailpiece. That was removed later.
 

Believer7713

The Pink Bunnyman Frankenstein
Silver Member
Dec 27, 2016
17,413
KC
More wood (and therefore weight) nearer the neck moves the center of gravity away from the neck? I dont think so.

Rather, methinks, the greater distance between the strap buttons increases the stability, much like wider spaced landing gear does on a plane. But only when using a strap, of course.

I think the real issue is that the thinner body (compared to a Les Paul, for example) means there's less weight at the bridge end to counteract the weight of the neck, shifting the center of gravity towards the neck. Moreover, the SG originally came with a rather sturdy tailpiece. That was removed later.
That is exactly what I am saying. With a longer top horn the strap is wider and therefore closer to the headstock. Move the strap closer to the tail piece and the straps footprint is more narrow and the guitar becomes neck heavy.
 

ThreeChordWonder

Senior Stratmaster
Dec 2, 2020
4,090
Cypress TX
Object remains in stable equilibrium so long as the center of gravity is between the supports. Mechanical Engineering Statics 101. The further apart the supports are from the center of gravity the more stable the object is.

Personally I've never had an issue with my SG and neck dive any more than any other guitar.
 


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