Where is the line between genuine/original and partscasters?

[Can of Beans]

We’re debating the definition of an arbitrary term. I thought it was accepted that it meant swapping either original body or neck with anything non original- be it fender or other brand. I’ve learned that I was wrong and that there are a lot of people that define it differently. That’s alright. I think everyone agrees that whatever the modifications are, they should be disclosed.

Does that sum it up?

No.

 

[Mr Dunlop]

IMO I think Leo was just trying to build a production guitar really.
I dont think he really cared about selling aftermarket parts or the guitar intended to be swapped out.

 

[BamaStrat]

I agree with others. At least on the sales market, once the original body and neck have been sperated, it's a partscaster.
Personally though, if I replaced a neck with the exact model from Fender I would still consider it genuine.

 

[Nadnitram]

I draw the line at strings. If you change the guitar's strings, it becomes a partscaster.

 

[Chmason85]

I draw the line at strings. If you change the guitar's strings, it becomes a partscaster.

 

[Slacker G]

When Fender uses parts from any other country other than the USA to build them?

But do they change back from parts casters into Fender guitars when it's time to to sell them?

 

[WEHJR68]

Side question:
I bought the right case for my 1999 American Standard Strat (chainsaw case with the red Fender label). Can I call it the original case?

Fake news! My '99 Am. Std. didn't come with a chainsaw case!

 

[kaziromel]

So my 1992 U.S. Vintage ‘62 Stratocaster (Model Number: 010-0909-840) is pretty heavily modified…some of the stuff is only cosmetic (pickguard, knobs, a couple of added decals and badges) but some of it is somewhat intrusive (pickups, potentiometers, neck plate, pickup selector switch).

Ultimately, only the neck, tuners, body, bridge, bridge cover/ashtray and trem block are original…I’ve done the following modifications:

(In no particular order)
ELECTRONIC:
-Changed stock 3-way switch to 5-way switch
-Changed pickups to Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe SP-90’s
-Changed center TONE knob to a push/pull potentiometer, which adds the bridge pickup to wherever the 5-way switch is set (enables Neck + Bridge or all three pickups on at once).

MECHANICAL:
-Added Schaller strap lock strap buttons
-Decked and blocked tremolo with small stack of quarters.

COSMETIC:
-Changed pickguard from white to aged white mother of pearl (official Fender part)
-Changed knobs, pickup covers and back trem spring cover from white to aged white (official Fender parts)
-Added “CUSTOM” badge to “ashtray” bridge cover (badge from a 1960’s Pontiac interior)
-Changed out stock neck plate with custom one etched with Screamin’ Armadillos band logo and the nickname of the guitar “Fiesta Red”
-Added a vinyl sticker of my signature to the back of the headstock
-Added sticker of my band’s logo to trem spring cover plate

MOSTLY STOCK
(I changed the 3-way to a 5-way switch and installed the Schaller Strap Locks the day I bought it, but otherwise it was dead-stock):
View attachment 648559

AFTER ALL THE MODIFICATIONS:
View attachment 648554 View attachment 648555 View attachment 648556 View attachment 648558

Like I said, some of the modifications are cosmetic, some are electronic, some are mechanical (blocking the tremolo/vibrato/whatever)…

With that many modifications and customizations, it’s definitely not “stock/factory original”, but I wouldn’t call it a “Partscaster,” either.

But that’s the line I drew in the sand of my mind.

I think that line you drew is pretty much the convention. It’s a (heavily?) modified Fender Stratocaster, no one will call it a partscaster. That “factory paired neck and body“ convention is quite strong (as has been proven in this post again). I’m in the same camp.

 

[Mr Dunlop]

So my 1992 U.S. Vintage ‘62 Stratocaster (Model Number: 010-0909-840) is pretty heavily modified…some of the stuff is only cosmetic (pickguard, knobs, a couple of added decals and badges) but some of it is somewhat intrusive (pickups, potentiometers, neck plate, pickup selector switch).

Ultimately, only the neck, tuners, body, bridge, bridge cover/ashtray and trem block are original…I’ve done the following modifications:

(In no particular order)
ELECTRONIC:
-Changed stock 3-way switch to 5-way switch
-Changed pickups to Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe SP-90’s
-Changed center TONE knob to a push/pull potentiometer, which adds the bridge pickup to wherever the 5-way switch is set (enables Neck + Bridge or all three pickups on at once).

MECHANICAL:
-Added Schaller strap lock strap buttons
-Decked and blocked tremolo with small stack of quarters.

COSMETIC:
-Changed pickguard from white to aged white mother of pearl (official Fender part)
-Changed knobs, pickup covers and back trem spring cover from white to aged white (official Fender parts)
-Added “CUSTOM” badge to “ashtray” bridge cover (badge from a 1960’s Pontiac interior)
-Changed out stock neck plate with custom one etched with Screamin’ Armadillos band logo and the nickname of the guitar “Fiesta Red”
-Added a vinyl sticker of my signature to the back of the headstock
-Added sticker of my band’s logo to trem spring cover plate

MOSTLY STOCK
(I changed the 3-way to a 5-way switch and installed the Schaller Strap Locks the day I bought it, but otherwise it was dead-stock):
View attachment 648559

AFTER ALL THE MODIFICATIONS:
View attachment 648554 View attachment 648555 View attachment 648556 View attachment 648558

Like I said, some of the modifications are cosmetic, some are electronic, some are mechanical (blocking the tremolo/vibrato/whatever)…

With that many modifications and customizations, it’s definitely not “stock/factory original”, but I wouldn’t call it a “Partscaster,” either.

But that’s the line I drew in the sand of my mind.

I imagine you saved the original neck plate to preserve the serial.
Without the original plate with the serial the guitar is probable worth about as much as a partscaster.

 

[92 Fiesta Red 62]

I imagine you saved the original neck plate to preserve the serial.
Without the original plate with the serial the guitar is probable worth about as much as a partscaster.

I saved every part I replaced.

 

[Mr Dunlop]

I saved every part I replaced.

Smart move!
That's probably the best way to preserve the guitar.
Can always change it back to original

 

[Guithartic]

Fake news! My '99 Am. Std. didn't come with a chainsaw case!

View attachment 648638

Do you mean your comment is fake news or you thought my comment was fake news. Either way, I’m curious about it. When I got mine new in 1999 from Guitar Center in Hollywood I never got a case. It was my first guitar purchase, and I knew nothing. In the past few years, I started inquiring on here and got the impression that possibly, in those days stores would sell the case separately or give you the choice of paying less without the case. I couldn’t recall if they gave me the option, but I could see myself declining to save money. So did you get yours in ‘99, and did it really come with that case, or did you even get a case with it? Mine is Inca silver too.

 

[systolsys]

In a similar vein to the Ship Of Theseus Paradox, where do you guys draw the line as to when a guitar becomes a partscaster?

I imagine most of would consider a American standard with one pickup changed to remain an American standard model, but what about if all was changed except the neck and body?

Some examples from my collection:

2014 MIM Lonestar. Factory matched neck and body, original bridge, neck and mid Texas Special pickups, electronics.
I swapped the factory tuners for Fender locking tuners. I don't think anybody would argue that's an "upgrade" (unless we suddenly get reports of Fender locking tuners breaking).
Bridge pickup is now a SD Pearly Gates in a Warmoth 4-layer tort pickguard. Those are mods, not upgrades, as they are personal preference.
I have all the factory parts so I can sell this as stock if needed.
Conclusion: Not a partscaster - factory guitar with mods. Can be sold as original.

2017 Fender Nashville Telecaster Deluxe MIM neck on a Warmoth body with humbucker bridge fitted with SD Pegasus and Sentient. Clearly a partscaster.

2020 Fender Deluxe MIM Strat with factory pickguard and electronics, Fender 59 single coil pickups and Jim Root Strat neck? Also a partscaster. Could argue it's an upgraded MIM model... but given the neck is worth more than the rest of the guitar should I strip is out and sell it as parts, that's doing it disservice.

I actually have three guitars - two Strats and a Tele - that use the MIM Deluxe bodies, hardware and electronics with American necks. Two have American pickups, the third has the Vintera low-wound Anico-II/III Tele set that I think sounds fantastic. I agree with a post further up that the body makes little difference to the quality of the guitar, but I do like the carved access to the upper frets on this range. (Why Fender removed it for the MIM Player Plus series I have no idea). These are instruments to play, and bang for buck, that combo gives me what I want. I don't care that they're not finished in nitro. Given they are mating two different models built in two different countries, they cannot be described as factory Fenders - they're partscasters.

Your original example was interesting. The pickups on the American Standard were really good. At least the set I have from 2000 is. So any change to those is definitely a "mod" not an upgrade. I'd argue at that level, it's the same with any other hardware (except possibly non-locking tuners). It's already at a level where the instrument is solid. So each change moves it towards partscaster territory. Compare that to a Player or other Mexican strat. Replacing the rather uninspiring factor pickups with something else is likely to be an upgrade in your mind, but pickups are a personal thing. I love my Texas Specials, but they are divisive and many people hate them.

 

[rjhalsey]

In a similar vein to the Ship Of Theseus Paradox, where do you guys draw the line as to when a guitar becomes a partscaster?

I imagine most of would consider a American standard with one pickup changed to remain an American standard model, but what about if all was changed except the neck and body?

How about if American (or whatever line you desire) parts were bought separately and assembled, that to me somehow feels more “partscastery” but probably wouldn’t be the case if I knew they all originated off the same guitar

My Strat and Tele builds identify as "Modular S and T Type guitars" thank you.

 

[Cerb]

Those are mods, not upgrades, as they are personal preference

So are the tuners. Someone with a dislike for locking tuners will think they’re a downgrade. Some people will consider them upgrades, some just won’t care either way.

 

[Markbuffyfan]

All fenders are parts casters! Fender in their hand books for new guitars used to point out they were the most readily customizable guitar and it was easy to swap parts out.
People on here make a big issue of original neck and body . Yet that matching was somebody randomly taking any neck off a rack and screwing it to a body the fact that later somebody changed that neck to another one even from a different year does not make it any less of a Fender strat .

When I 1st joined this group 3 years ago I was seeking advice as I was about to buy a Fender deluxe strat sunburst in excellent condition . However when I checked the serial numbers the guitar pictured was the deluxe strat but it had a different colour body and was SSS not HSS as the guitar now was . My agreed price over the phone with the guy was £1000 which would have been a good fair price for the guitar if it was as advertised . ( this was a 70 year old hank Marvin fan who had bought the guitar from a friend of a friend and I’m sure believed it was original ) I was advised on here that it was no longer an original and was now a parts caster and the value was max £500 .
I was suspicious of the guitar because it had the Narrow LSR roller nut and that was only on the deluxe HSS. The owner declined my offer as though he did not know ( he had a receipt from the guy he bought off for £1200. But here’s the thing I’m fairly sure three years on as a much more experienced buyer that I could not buy that guitar off anyone for less than £900 .is the market more accepting of parts caster than before it was the advised value advised value of £500 just bad advise ( ps I ended up with a awesome strat Elite that has an amazing neck and wicked Gen. 4 pickups for £900 so I was happy .

 

[Wrighty]

Yes, because EC’s “Blackie” and “Brownie”annd Gilmore’s “Black Strat” annd “Red Strat” and Jimmie Vaughan’s white 56(?) Strat and Stevie’s #1 all fit @Cerb ’s definition of a partscaster in post # 2 (a definition I agree with)…

However, I think very few of us would call those instruments anything other than “Stratocasters.”

Shoot, I’ll even call Ian Moore’s “Stratocaster with an Esquire neck” amalgamation a “Strat.”

Yep. Strat is a generic term for type of guitar. In these cases the body defines them a Strats. If one had a Tele neck fitted, it would generally be described as a Strat, possibly with a mention re the swapped neck. The attached is a Ford model A, even though little of it is! Again, generic, the body form, overall basic shape, is enough to define it as such.

 

[Stealthracer]

Whenever I separate a body and neck, I always keep the plate with the body, even if there's nothing engraved on it - just from habit I suppose. Then the screw stay with the neck, as using different screws could strip the holes.

 

[stratocarlster]

I was advised on here that it was no longer an original and was now a parts caster and the value was max £500 .

Any internet advice re guitar value has to be taken with an extra large pinch of salt -- even more so when it's people in the US (where guitars are dirt cheap, relatively speaking) giving advice to people in other countries. Where the internet experts are invaluable, however, is helping you figure out exactly what it is you're looking at. Armed with that knowledge, it's then up to you to decide how much you are prepared to pay for it, considering your local market conditions.

 

[Johnnyg123]

Some joker could strip down his strat and put it back together arseways. Turning it into absolute muck but it would be an original strat.

Some pro luthier could put a really nice neck and great body together from different strats. Turning it into something that plays and sounds like a heavenly choir of angels. But it would be a partscaster.

I think the "they are all partscasters" has some merit