Truth about Fender Japan

[stylemessiah]

I owned a few MIJ & CIJ pre-1998 Strats in my life, all were on par or sometimes above what i got out of the same period USA gear

 

[Kenny202]

I am going against the grain here but I think Fender Japan guitars are overrated. Fender Japan were way better in the 80's early 90's in comparison to US Fender going through their manufacturing issues. Japan were close to par 90's early 2000's, but Fender US really had their act together from 2008 ish onwards IMO. In particular for me anything from the US factory after 2012 is superb.

I trade guitars and have had 100+ of them go through my hands and was never anything more than underwhelmed, thinking to myself I don't get it? Beautiful fit and finish no doubt but I am more interested in how it sets up, how it plays and how it sounds. For a start, most I have had difficulties with to set up neck wise. Difficult at best to get a nice smooth action....at worst just a dog to play.... which puzzles me, given Japanese reputation for precision. I know for some high action is desirable but for me the measure of a good guitar is if you can get a low straight action right through the neck very easily, whether you want it or not (Early 80's Yamaha Session series, G&L Tribute for example excel here). I have played early JV series.... nice enough guitars but not worth the money they are commanding. Early ones probably sounded better at least with proper pick ups.

The ceramic pick ups on the standard guitars are lifeless and toneless IMO. And yes you can buy Japan US and custom models with upgraded this and that or after market pick ups but then you are close to Fender US price, and for me just for resale value I would pick US every time. I know many with Japan guitars would disagree. Just my 2c

 

[pariahjohn]

But how they feel n sound?

 

[pariahjohn]

My E series I bought in 90, 91 (?) was fine, but I’ve had better pickups for sure.
Used to love the smallish neck too, but now after playing other US strat necks (60,said84-87,2002,another2002,2004,2015,and another 3 E series japan for partscasters) I like the thicker US ones

 

[3bolt79]

Wow, a resurrected Zombie thread from 2021 is alive once again.

 

[76standard]

hello everyone!
I keep reading about comments on Fender Japan with most people saying the 80's production till 2000 was great and than this and that ...
Well I have been living in Asia 12 years, tried sooo many Japanese Fenders that is almost impossible to list and owned:
Telecaster 50s
Telecaster Thinline 72 (still have, and I also had in the past the mexican)
Stratocaster Traditional 50s
Stratocaster Heritage 50s
https://www.ishibashi.co.jp/fender/...t/2020_madeinjapan_heritage_50s_stratocaster/
During these years when I tried and owned Japanese ones, I also had mexican and american ones (American Strat standard and American Special).
So few of my findings:
1 - American strat do not always have the same level of finishing and details as japanese.
For example the American Special strat bridge I had was not grounded, while all japanese were.
2 - It's true that some Japanese strat use a weird wood (Basswood), but the truth is it sounds unbelievably good! True also that is's a bit soft and easier to ding.
I sold my Stratocaster Traditional 50s because of that ding and I regret it every single day.
The level of consistency of Fender japan quality and finish is UNBELIEVABLE! It is impossible to find flows or corners cut (which i did find on the american special).
I had mexican and Japanese of the same exact model and I can tell that as much as the mexican was ok guitar, the japanese version was definitely another league. whoever says different never tried the japanese and out side to side the same model
For me the essence of fender japan is: perfect craftmanship, amazing tones, particular versions and finishes that are not available in other countries for about 40 to 50% of the equivalent american version.
One important downside, the entry level come with a terrible gigbag!
guys I go often to Japan (not this year yet!) if you are curious about a particular model let me know!
Cheers

Ps
I'm attaching few pics of the traditional 50s, white blonde, with gold hardware and pickguard and a couple of videos (apologise I'm just an ok player) of both the traditional 50s and the heritage 50s (available only in Japan).

I purchased a MIJ Strat with a 1992 (L) serial number. It is the vintage recreation of the ’54. You are absolutely right about the craftsmanship and attention to detail. Mine is made of alder. I made a few upgrades that are well worth the investment; Fralin Blues Specials pickups, a bone nut and a Callaham bridge/tremolo system. Just a joy to play. Purchase price used was $425. Score!

 

[AxemanVR]

I guess to showcase your knowledge of all things Japanese. But, incredibly, you have never owned a Japanese guitar! What of value have you added to this discussion?

You’re like two years late to this conversation (started March of 2021), so let’s debate the value of rehashing it…

To reiterate my stance (for the umpteenth time), since I truly love my MIM and American made Fenders, why in sam hell would I stand idly by while someone makes unsubstantiated claims based on very limited proof that they are somehow inherently inferior?

In fact, why wouldn’t I defend the view that my non-Japanese Fenders are excellent? (since they definitely are, in my equally subjective opinion).

Sure, I can’t definitively speak for the quality of Japanese guitars, but since I personally hold mine to such a high regard, frankly, I couldn’t care less - because mine are exactly the way I expect a high quality instrument should be!

And I certainly haven’t seen the piss-poor quality the OP has allegedly witnessed in everything “non-Japanese”.

In other words, I’m perfectly happy with never considering anything made somewhere else, which is my prerogative, so “value that” zombie thread perpetuator…


.

 

[The Strat Dude]

You’re like two years late to this conversation (started March of 2021), so let’s debate the value of rehashing it…

lol I was thinking the same thing

 

[rolandson]

Japanese crafts people make wonderful guitars.

Mexico, which has a history of guitar making that predates anything in this part of North America by a couple hundred years, also make wonderful guitars.

There's a plethora of fine guitar makers in the states too.

How about that.
Everyone wins a trophy.
Yay!

Now then, do we all get to go out for pizza?

Wow, a resurrected Zombie thread from 2021 is alive once again.

But...is it?
Is a zombie alive? Or is it the walking dead thread?

 

[3bolt79]

Japanese crafts people make wonderful guitars.

Mexico, which has a history of guitar making that predates anything in this part of North America by a couple hundred years, also make wonderful guitars.

There's a plethora of fine guitar makers in the states too.

How about that.
Everyone wins a trophy.
Yay!

Now then, do we all get to go out for pizza?

But...is it?
Is a zombie alive? Or is it the walking dead thread?

Take the Zombie with you to the Pizza Parlour, and see if he asks for brains as one of his toppings.lil

 

[stratman323]

The group that bought Fender from CBS was headed up by Bill Shultz, not Dan Smith. I am fairly certain that Smith wasn't part of the ownership group but was always an employee of the company.

The sale happened in February 1985, but they had wound down production by the end of 1984. And as you say didn't include the Fullerton factory, and didn't set up their factory space in Corona until July 1985. So there was no USA production from the end of 1984 until circa October 1985 when they finally started shipping from the new factory (but production was tiny - 10-15 total instruments per day - until further into 1986, and they didn't hit big production numbers until the summer of 1987, once they added the American Standard series to the AVRI series).

As a footnote to this history - CBS had multiple offers for Fender; besides Bill Schultz's group John McLaren (who had left CBS's instrument division a couple of years earlier) also put together an offer, and of course Schultz's offer was accepted. McLaren would go on to found BBE Sound, which became Leo Fender's hand-picked company to purchase G&L upon his death in early 1991.

All correct, of course, but I've highlighted the bit that seems to be most misunderstood. It's often said that there were no Fenders guitars made in the USA in 1985 & I used to believe that. But we have seen at least ten or so 1985 AVRIs on here in the last ten years or so. They're very rare but they do exist. There can surely have been no other years since 1950 when so few US Fender guitars were made in the USA.

Those are facts, & important facts. The rest of the thread seems to have deteriorated into

Fender Japan guitars are better! No they're not! Yes they are.

What's the ****ing point of that? More interesting threads than this get randomly shut down by a mod in a bad mood but this rubbish is allowed to drag on & on & on....

 

[rolandson]

Take the Zombie with you to the Pizza Parlour, and see if he asks for brains as one of his toppings.lil

"Oz didn't give noth'n to the Tin Man
That he didn't already have..."

 

[ETucc]

Kool Aid alert!
Drink up!

If I threw a PRS Silver Sky off a bridge, would he jump?

 

[GregoryP]

If I threw a PRS Silver Sky off a bridge, would he jump?

The ones I own wouldn't sink. I'd just use a Fender to paddle a boat out to retrieve it.

 

[Intune]

I purchased a MIJ Strat with a 1992 (L) serial number. It is the vintage recreation of the ’54. You are absolutely right about the craftsmanship and attention to detail. Mine is made of alder. I made a few upgrades that are well worth the investment; Fralin Blues Specials pickups, a bone nut and a Callaham bridge/tremolo system. Just a joy to play. Purchase price used was $425. Score!

Beautiful guitar but I didn’t think the MIJ stuff were vintage recreations or considered vintage reissues? Sweet looking strat and $425 is a steal!

 

[Butcher of Strats]

All correct, of course, but I've highlighted the bit that seems to be most misunderstood. It's often said that there were no Fenders guitars made in the USA in 1985 & I used to believe that. But we have seen at least ten or so 1985 AVRIs on here in the last ten years or so. They're very rare but they do exist. There can surely have been no other years since 1950 when so few US Fender guitars were made in the USA.

Those are facts, & important facts. The rest of the thread seems to have deteriorated into

Fender Japan guitars are better! No they're not! Yes they are.

What's the ****ing point of that? More interesting threads than this get randomly shut down by a mod in a bad mood but this rubbish is allowed to drag on & on & on....

View attachment 634218

You may THINK that is the most important info in this thread but the original question asked by the OP was: "Are the vintage MIJ better than the more recent CIJ?"

If any shopper is considering a Fender purchase, the never ending quetion: "are these uns better than those uns?" will never become a dead horse topic.

It IS of great interest though, and more in recent years since dead horses seem to be targeted so much. Creepy eh?
How long US Fender production stopped for, WE MUST KNOW!!!
I happen to have a nice MIJ PP Tele from you guessed it 1985 when Fender was not making guitars in the US!
Or were they?
My PP Tele neck is dated 4-10-85 so it was made when Fender was indeed no longer making any guitars in the US.

While dates of sales and closings and openings and contract signings would fall into dead horse territory, the confusing thing that is a moving target and may never become a dead horse,mis how do we define values of the transtion era Fender Japan guitars?

Knowing that the market now thinks the Digitech Bad Monkey is awesome, can we ever agree on how good MIJ Fender guitars are?

Worse and even more funny is that the market has less trouble agreeing that an 85 Tokai is worth big money, than agreeing that an 85 MIJ Fender is worth big money.

 

[Butcher of Strats]

Beautiful guitar but I didn’t think the MIJ stuff were vintage recreations or considered vintage reissues? Sweet looking strat and $425 is a steal!

In the 1990s there were a lot of seeming "57 reissue" or "57 spec" MIJ Strats onnthe used market in NYC.
Oddly I no longer see those but they were lentiful then, or I saw lots of them all around $300 in clean condition. Not sure when they were made and it seemed every one was black.
Maybe Manny's or Sam Ash imported a load of them?
Maybe even a special run?

Of course we now discern between a RI and a vintage style or even vintage modified.
The obsessive degree that shoppers buys players collectors obsess over all these specs dates and production was not happening back then.
But Fender may have made as many guitars in this Century already, as they made in the last one.

 

[Intune]

In the 1990s there were a lot of seeming "57 reissue" or "57 spec" MIJ Strats onnthe used market in NYC.
Oddly I no longer see those but they were lentiful then, or I saw lots of them all around $300 in clean condition. Not sure when they were made and it seemed every one was black.
Maybe Manny's or Sam Ash imported a load of them?
Maybe even a special run?

Of course we now discern between a RI and a vintage style or even vintage modified.
The obsessive degree that shoppers buys players collectors obsess over all these specs dates and production was not happening back then.
But Fender may have made as many guitars in this Century already, as they made in the last one.

Yeah good point. The 80’s had the first USA reissues so by the 90’s it still would have been only 10 years or so into. Nowadays they’ve been reissued many times over so I can see the frenzy of finding out which exact reissue one has.

There is somewhat a price difference between certain models and that’s even more in-depth with MIJ models. They range from entry level to extremely expensive and most just clump them all into one. I’m sure lots got burned buying the higher end models and find out it’s a base model. So I think it’s good to obsess over the fine details, save money in the long especially with the MIJ stuff.

 

[CrisEdinburgh]

hello everyone!
I keep reading about comments on Fender Japan with most people saying the 80's production till 2000 was great and than this and that ...
Well I have been living in Asia 12 years, tried sooo many Japanese Fenders that is almost impossible to list and owned:
Telecaster 50s
Telecaster Thinline 72 (still have, and I also had in the past the mexican)
Stratocaster Traditional 50s
Stratocaster Heritage 50s
https://www.ishibashi.co.jp/fender/...t/2020_madeinjapan_heritage_50s_stratocaster/
During these years when I tried and owned Japanese ones, I also had mexican and american ones (American Strat standard and American Special).
So few of my findings:
1 - American strat do not always have the same level of finishing and details as japanese.
For example the American Special strat bridge I had was not grounded, while all japanese were.
2 - It's true that some Japanese strat use a weird wood (Basswood), but the truth is it sounds unbelievably good! True also that is's a bit soft and easier to ding.
I sold my Stratocaster Traditional 50s because of that ding and I regret it every single day.
The level of consistency of Fender japan quality and finish is UNBELIEVABLE! It is impossible to find flows or corners cut (which i did find on the american special).
I had mexican and Japanese of the same exact model and I can tell that as much as the mexican was ok guitar, the japanese version was definitely another league. whoever says different never tried the japanese and out side to side the same model
For me the essence of fender japan is: perfect craftmanship, amazing tones, particular versions and finishes that are not available in other countries for about 40 to 50% of the equivalent american version.
One important downside, the entry level come with a terrible gigbag!
guys I go often to Japan (not this year yet!) if you are curious about a particular model let me know!
Cheers

Ps
I'm attaching few pics of the traditional 50s, white blonde, with gold hardware and pickguard and a couple of videos (apologise I'm just an ok player) of both the traditional 50s and the heritage 50s (available only in Japan).

Hi and thanks for this interesting post. I have a basswood Japanese '60s strat which I bought last year in Tokyo, which has the most beautiful twang, which I adore. I also have a Squier 60s traditional and believe that the Japanese equivalent has a significantly narrower neck. Apart from the sound, this is the major difference. I honestly prefer the width of the Squier neck, but it is not a big deal. I just have to play more carefully to avoid slipping off the edge with the top E string. Do you know if Fender Japan makes anything like the American Ultra with rounded fretboard edges, rounded heel and shaped heelplate?

 

[CrisEdinburgh]

`
While I have no doubt that your observations are a sincere honest assessment of what you've experienced, unless you have thoroughly examined something like 100,000 Japanese, 100,000 USA and 100,000 MIM Fender Stratocaster and tallied all the finish flaws and loose ground wires, I'm sorry, your observations are not any sort of accurate assessment that can be taken as "fact".

And, while I too have heard great things about Japanese Fender guitars, nothing I've experienced with Fender's USA and MIM models has come close to ever tempting me consider getting one from the honorable Land of the Rising Sun, despite their alleged superiority...



`

Statistically speaking a reasonable sample size would be more than a minimum of 100 and less than 1000 of each https://tools4dev.org/resources/how-to-choose-a-sample-size/