WhiteWabbit
Senior Stratmaster
Because of this post I ordered a Ps-100 last night. It was the first piece of gear I mentioned to my girlfriend that made her say “get it!”. So that was that.
Quiet 5e3 amp?
- Thread starter grritz
- Start date
Because of this post I ordered a Ps-100 last night. It was the first piece of gear I mentioned to my girlfriend that made her say “get it!”. So that was that.
El Gobernador
fezz parka
Yep.
I love the 5e3 circuit, but hate the controls. Would love to know if there is anyone building a 5e3 with normal volumes and controls. Seems like a simple idea. I have always got a kick out of the modern builders who try to emulate the classic Deluxe but upgrade everything. I have had the opportunity to restore 2 tweeds from the 50's. Both cabinets had knots in the wood and the speaker baffle was 1/4" plywood. So if you upgrade the parts, the speaker, and cabinet, you have a great amp, but it don't sound like Leo's 5e3. Just sayin.
Eric Dahlberg
Strat-Talk Member
It would change the gain structure a lot. Think 5E3 vs. 5F6-a. It would be a cool amp, just different.
Butcher of Strats
Senior Stratmaster
It’s funny, on the one hand we have an explosion of amp buying options where players today have 100-500 times as many circuits to choose from compared to those of us shopping and playing in the 1970s, with a staggering emphasis on 1w to 5w tube amps and even 15w amps that include 1w and 5w settings via power scaling etc etc
But in the other hand we have an explosion of hobby modding that leads to many buyers ordering brand new gear and parts to mid the brand new gear without even trying it first.
While I’m into modding gear and have been for 45 years, I’ve found that my urge to modify perfectly good amps is often far less productive than simply buying the right amp instead of modding the wrong amp.
At the same time, many of us are more into the workbench as our venue, and are less into being musicians. That’s cool too and we need people who CAN play but their greater value is in design, modding, repair and building gear.
I really straddled that line, and still value guitar workbench but really think it’s worth taking a hard look at our motivation when deciding we want to design, redesign, modify, or just plain take a sawzall to working gear!
If music is the goal in this quest, Id shop for a tweedy amp in your required volume range. OP, have you played a good Tweed Champ?
How many Tweed Deluxe have you spent a lot of time with?
Have you been on RobRobs website for modding and building amps?
But in the other hand we have an explosion of hobby modding that leads to many buyers ordering brand new gear and parts to mid the brand new gear without even trying it first.
While I’m into modding gear and have been for 45 years, I’ve found that my urge to modify perfectly good amps is often far less productive than simply buying the right amp instead of modding the wrong amp.
At the same time, many of us are more into the workbench as our venue, and are less into being musicians. That’s cool too and we need people who CAN play but their greater value is in design, modding, repair and building gear.
I really straddled that line, and still value guitar workbench but really think it’s worth taking a hard look at our motivation when deciding we want to design, redesign, modify, or just plain take a sawzall to working gear!
If music is the goal in this quest, Id shop for a tweedy amp in your required volume range. OP, have you played a good Tweed Champ?
How many Tweed Deluxe have you spent a lot of time with?
Have you been on RobRobs website for modding and building amps?
Eric Dahlberg
Strat-Talk Member
Great advice there. Changing speakers usually makes a big difference. Changing the first preamp tube stage can sometimes be worth doing but I’ve never seen the clouds part from it. A tech once ruined my 1963 Brownface Deluxe by replacing the original caps with orange drops, so now I never touch caps until they go bad.
I don't do mods on amps. I'm an electronics idiot/moron and I'd probably electrocute myself or burn the house down, whichever comes first.
I've not tried the Champ...nor the Tweed Deluxe. The only reason I haven't is that I just recerntly fell into a trade that brought me a Louis Electric Buster, an amp very highly recommended by Champ/Tweed enthusiasts.
I was looking for an amp that would give me the ultimate cleans and the near-breakup pushed tone I've been searching for. That's when I heard about the 5e3 circuit...and then I realized that circuit was sitting here, right inside Buster. Buster's only problem: bluster...he's a very loud guy, as are all 5e3s
So, after doing more research here and in other forums and other web sites, I took the advice of several people and decided to tame Buster with an attenuator.
A Tone King Ironman II Mini is on its way to me.
So, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
Ohhhh...and music is always the goal.
El Gobernador
fezz parka
A small amp that sounds Deluxe? Early 50's Supro Spectator.
meat cheese meat
Strat-Talker
+ 1 on the Ironman II and the Imperial MKII amp. The MKII has an Ironman attenuator built in. It's a very good attenuator on its own and is worth the extra bucks. The Imperial is sort of two amps in one - a blackface-ish channel and a lead channel that gets into tweed territory when turned up a bit. It has channel switching and Ironman switching and you can choose having the Ironman on one channel but not the other. It's very versatile. Both channels sound gorgeous. It's now considered a classic amp as it's been popular and successful for decades. It's worth the money IMHO. It's on youtube. Note - the Imperial does not have the Ironman, only the Imperial MKII has it.
The Weber Mini Mass doesn't sound as true as the Ironman. You get what you pay for.
Good luck.
The Weber Mini Mass doesn't sound as true as the Ironman. You get what you pay for.
Good luck.
meat cheese meat
Strat-Talker
They sound quite different to me.
I like mine
El Gobernador
fezz parka
Not to me. My little Spectator (branded El Grande) did everything my Deluxe did, but in a smaller package.
I sold it to Dan Auerbach ten years ago. He liked it for the same reasons. Me and Dan vs. you? Me and Dan win.
`
The main problem with most of the attenuators I've tried is there's little or no compensation for the change in tone as the volume drops (mostly in the form of treble loss in my experience).
My Fryette PS-100 is not only able to compensate for this with the "Presence" and "Depth" controls (as well as toggle switches that add more brilliance or girth), but I can also run a graphic EQ through the Effects Loop to further dial in my sound.
Don't get me wrong, if your amp has enough tone control range to compensate, then it may not be a problem. Unfortunately the typical 5E3 type amp has very limited adjustment in that area (I usually have to have the TONE knob cranked all the way up on mine - especially at lower volumes).
In the end I could have saved a chunk of change by just getting the Fryette in the first place.
Anyway, here are a couple reviews I posted using two different "attenuator" products specifically with my 5E3 2019 Fender '57 Custom Deluxe amp:
Bugera PS1 Attenuator Review...
Like a lot of players I have a few amps that are way too loud to enjoy playing in certain situations, so I decided to go the "attenuation" route. After reviewing several options (both low priced and high end) I figured I'd try the low priced version first; For a couple reasons: 1) The higher...
Fryette PS-100 Review
` I'd like to start this review off by pointing out how the Fryette PS-100 is often referred to as an "attenuator", but that label grossly minimizes what this device really does in my opinion. Sure, it can attenuate - in the sense that you can turn it down - but functionally it's still a vacuum...
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MadScot
Strat-Talk Member
Probably not for you but I put in power scaling (VVR) in my 5E3 when I built it. Recommended by my amp tech over an attenuator. Works great. I can get bedroom volumes to full on without changing the sound. The only thing it can't do is replicate any speaker distortion. Just my $.02 or maybe $.002 with the current inflation. 
Eric Dahlberg
Strat-Talk Member
I had a similar experience with the Suhr Badger’s power scaling. The sound definitely changes but there are some great Marshall #34-type tones that you can only get using the power scaling.Bugera PS1 Attenuator Review...
Like a lot of players I have a few amps that are way too loud to enjoy playing in certain situations, so I decided to go the "attenuation" route. After reviewing several options (both low priced and high end) I figured I'd try the low priced version first; For a couple reasons: 1) The higher...www.strat-talk.com
meat cheese meat
Strat-Talker
When I wrote that I thought we were talking about a blackface Deluxe. Why? A spaceout; it says 5E3 in the OP. Doh. Tweed and Supro are in the same ballpark, in a general sort of way. I've never heard them as closely related - 5E3 has more highs and lows. Supro - more grunge. They're cousins in that they both share the narrower frequency range of 40's and 50's amps. Their circuits and components are so different. My ears tell me they don't do the same thing. I like some of Dan's stuff but if he thinks they do the SAME thing, he's not paying attention. (I doubt that he thinks they're THAT similar.) I understand how you guys would hear similarities (they both sag etc.) because there are similarities. But they do different things. Supro goes with National and Silvertone amps. They have their own genre. Fender is a different genre. There's an overlap, that's all. So I get you lumping them together if you're using a BROAD definition. Now, blackface and Supro - not related.Not to me. My little Spectator (branded El Grande) did everything my Deluxe did, but in a smaller package.
I sold it to Dan Auerbach ten years ago. He liked it for the same reasons. Me and Dan vs. you? Me and Dan win.
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Bob Spumoni
Senior Stratmaster
Nothing worse than tone/volume knobs w/ those d----d detents.
