Please remind
What if anything is special
And
Or
Important with these pickups...
Please
What if anything is special
And
Or
Important with these pickups...
Please
PAF hummers
- Thread starter thomquietwolf
- Start date
Buzzgrowl
Strat-O-Master
I've played originals in a very old LP once for about 30m through a supersonic 22. Clear with lots of mid and highs for a HB. Maybe they were broken. Is the 22 a bright amp?
Never played any new ones advertised "in the PAF style".
Never played any new ones advertised "in the PAF style".
In my experience they have a certain clarity, a bell-like tone compared to others. In 2019 I had the rare opportunity to play an actual 1959 Les Paul Standard and happened to have my 1973 Lester and its original T-Top pickups with me. Was during a guitar show.
The difference was less than I would have thought, both sounding quite good. The PAFs, especially the neck pickup were not muddy with more definition compared to the T-Tops.
I had a set of PAFs made for me by ReWind Electric shortly after: https://www.re-wind.net/Buckers.html The prices were considerably less than now. I worked out an even gear trade for the set.
I spoke with the winder and told him what my impressions were and asked if he could recreate that tone. He did - they are his PAF-1 model with A4 bar magnets. They sound an awful like what I remember of the '59s pickup tone and clarity. The DC resistance is slightly higher at ~8.8 kΩ than the T-Tops at ~7.8 kΩ.
For the first time since I owned the Lester, I really love the neck pickup.
The '59 I had a go with, click to zoom for full resolution:
The difference was less than I would have thought, both sounding quite good. The PAFs, especially the neck pickup were not muddy with more definition compared to the T-Tops.
I had a set of PAFs made for me by ReWind Electric shortly after: https://www.re-wind.net/Buckers.html The prices were considerably less than now. I worked out an even gear trade for the set.
I spoke with the winder and told him what my impressions were and asked if he could recreate that tone. He did - they are his PAF-1 model with A4 bar magnets. They sound an awful like what I remember of the '59s pickup tone and clarity. The DC resistance is slightly higher at ~8.8 kΩ than the T-Tops at ~7.8 kΩ.
For the first time since I owned the Lester, I really love the neck pickup.
The '59 I had a go with, click to zoom for full resolution:
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arct
Senior Stratmaster
Crisp and refreshing cleans, delightful overdrives. I'm not the worlds biggest Gibson fanboy by any stretch at all. The real PAFs were their crowning achievement to me.
rct
rct
The originals were not consistent - see bode plot of frequency responses below from Helmuth Lemme (if such data were better known no one would be obsessing over 'vintage wood' to explain sonic differences). Modern "clones" are built to well-known recipes (and are thus rather similar).
www.gitarrenelektronik.de/patent-applied-for
hell="bright"; mittel="middle"; weich="soft"
www.gitarrenelektronik.de/patent-applied-for
hell="bright"; mittel="middle"; weich="soft"
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Oldiemurphy
Senior Stratmaster
It's not a Gibson. But this very early DiMarzio PAF always did me right. Nice warm sound.
I'm kind of on this page.The originals were not consistent - see bode plot of frequency responses below from Helmuth Lemme (if such data were better known no one would be obsessing over 'vintage wood' to explain sonic differences). Modern "clones" are built to well-known recipes (and are thus rather similar).
www.gitarrenelektronik.de/patent-applied-for
hell="bright"; mittel="middle"; weich="soft"
I can't say I've ever played 'vintage' pickups period.
Paf to me is a guide. From what I understand, they were erratic in number of winds, wind pattern, magnet type, strength and maybe wire type?
So, what paf, would be a reasonable question to ask, when describing paf sounds. I think. Never played one, so even that's speculation.
Real happy with tonerider ac2's I have FWIW
That's how theyre supposed to sound. The best bridge PAF's sound like a single coil.
As far as whether they sound better, I'd listen to someone like Joe Bonamassa on things like that. He says that if you're buying an old guitar just for the sound, you can get new, better sounding guitars for $1000+. No need to pay half a million dollars for a '59 Les Paul or $26k for a 60s Strat, etc...
HazyPurple
You've gotta get up!, to get down!
I believe the P.A.F. was wound until the bobbin was full. No counter in place so inconsistencies would occur in the winds...
You may get a good one, perhaps
You may get a good one, perhaps
somebodyelseuk
Senior Stratmaster
Read this for the history and technical stuff -
Best I can offer for 'what makes them special'... clarity, dynamic range, definition, touch sensitivity.
'Tele on steroids' is an often used description, in terms of tone.
I'll be honest, I can get the 'sound' with a Seymour Duncan '59 on a Strat, but the rest of the recipe... Until I got the Amber Spirit Of '59 repros in my Tokai, I didn't really 'get it'. After cheap humbuckers, they're actually scary - you really have to sharpen up your playing, because they will expose you.
Best I can offer for 'what makes them special'... clarity, dynamic range, definition, touch sensitivity.
'Tele on steroids' is an often used description, in terms of tone.
I'll be honest, I can get the 'sound' with a Seymour Duncan '59 on a Strat, but the rest of the recipe... Until I got the Amber Spirit Of '59 repros in my Tokai, I didn't really 'get it'. After cheap humbuckers, they're actually scary - you really have to sharpen up your playing, because they will expose you.
Seems some are excellent and people will pay a lot of money for them. Those that do pay the big bucks I'm sure have convinced themselves that they're the holy grail. I'd love to hear a blind test, PAF's vs Seth Lovers, Lollar Imperials etc.
El Gobernador
fezz parka
Go listen to any Bluesbreakers records. Clapton, Green, and Taylor all played PAF's.
The key to their open sound is the lack of potting. Potting kills pickups.
The best sounding (in my experience) PAF made today is the Duncan Seth Lover. There is none better.
The key to their open sound is the lack of potting. Potting kills pickups.
The best sounding (in my experience) PAF made today is the Duncan Seth Lover. There is none better.
Oh I know it!
I sort of knew a guy who knew the seller of the '59 so I bravely asked if I might be able to try it out. Figured that was the one time in me life I'd get to do so. Worst he could have said was no.
An unexpected surprise were the pots on the '59. The feel and roll off on them was quite smooth and precise.
In addition to having my Lester with me, I also brought along some closed back over the ear headphones (Sony MDRV6) and my little Vox AmPlug2. Being able to compare the two with familiar gear was an epic experience.
The '59 was selling for $120k+.
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Good stuff!
They have overtones of blueberry with a strong finish of plywood.
Both the SD 59 and Amber 59 are obviously quality PAF clones. And objective data from their bode plots suggests that they are basically the same pickup (as are other common PAF clones, which are usually made to very similar recipes).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KHBrqxGPuA
So any difference in their sonic performance in particular guitars would likely have to be due to differences in those guitars' passive electronics (which affect the pickup's resonant frequency), their setup (eg pickup height), manufacturing variation, or commonly measured sites of string vibration frequency losses, for example to the neck or bridge.
Zollner, M. (2010). The Physics of E-Guitars: Vibration – Voltage – Sound wave—Timbre. 26th Tonmeistertagung – VDT International Convention, Leipzig, Germany. https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.348.6822
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El Gobernador
fezz parka
Again...if it's a potted pickup...it will not sound like a clone of a PAF.
Potting kills pickups. Period.
Potting kills pickups. Period.
somebodyelseuk
Senior Stratmaster
The graphs don't tell you everything about how the pickup performs, just what frequencies they're putting out.Both the SD 59 and Amber 59 are obviously quality PAF clones. And objective data from their bode plots suggests that they are basically the same pickup (as are other common PAF clones, which are usually made to very similar recipes).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KHBrqxGPuA
So any difference in their sonic performance in particular guitars would likely have to be due to differences in those guitars' passive electronics (which affect the pickup's resonant frequency), their setup (eg pickup height), manufacturing variation, or commonly measured sites of string vibration frequency losses, for example to the neck or bridge.
Zollner, M. (2010). The Physics of E-Guitars: Vibration – Voltage – Sound wave—Timbre. 26th Tonmeistertagung – VDT International Convention, Leipzig, Germany. https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.348.6822
I can assure you the Seymour Duncan '59 has the same numbers as the Amber '59, but that's where it ends. It's a long way from being a PAF clone.
Like I said in my previous post, I can get the sound from a SD 59, but until you've played a PAF or a good repro, you won't 'get it'.
