Newb - HSS wiring questions - A new twist

[iH8usrnames]

This is my current wiring situation; thanks to everyone for the help thus far.
I purposely did not include wires to trem claw or output.


Current status:
Neck pickup works as it should - T1.
Neck+Middle works as it should - T1 for them both pickups
Middle works as it should - T1.
Middle+Bridge - T1 affects bridge and middle pickup at the same time, T2 affects bridge and middle pickup at the same time.
Bridge - T2 works as it should.

Middle+Bridge issue:
If I swing T1 to 0 both are 100% affected regardless if T2 is on 10.
If I swing T2 to 0 both are 100% affected regardless if T1 is on 10.

Ideally:
T1 works with Neck, Neck+Middle, Middle, or on the Middle alone if set to Middle+Bridge
T2 dedicated to the Bridge pickup.

I suspect the fix for this would be to remove the jumper between T1 and T2, add another cap to T2 and run both to the volume pot.

Additional kink:
Added toggle for "Gilmour Mod" and when set to Bridge and mod engaged, T2 controls the tone of both pickups.
In dreamland world T2 would only affect Bridge pickup and Neck remain unmolested, or, there would be some way to make T1 work when mod engaged.

I do have a DPDT switch available if that is helpful.
I imagine I could place it between the pickup and 5-way toggle.
When in off position it would send signal to the toggle as usual.
When on it would send the signal to T2 and volume pot.
I could be COMPLETELY WRONG, too.

Thanks in advance.

 

[AngelLaHash]

looks ok to me

i never understand a 1P2T to bring the Neck in to play. Because it bypass the 5way switch
meaning its not needed on the 5 way switch any more.

in that case might as well have a 2P2T On/Off/On and then you got Phase switching too.
{i tried to delete this as i went WAY off subject}

 

[Stephen James]

Does it have the same behavior if you disconnect the gilmour mod?

 

[StratUp]

Part 0 Diagram:

The unused end of the volume pot needs to be grounded to the case.

The kill switch should run from a C terminal to ground to take all signals to ground. Alternatively, it could be from the hot inbound volume pot lug to ground. Then it just dumps the signal to ground.

You need a wire form the outbound V pot to the output jack. The kill switch could also attach to the output jack hot.

Part 1 - Tone:

Current operation is "expected" I guess... you have a tone control on the B pickup. You have one on the M pickup. Get output from both and they will both be in-play. Like a Gibson with two tone controls - on the middle setting, both have an effect on the tone of their respective pickup.

If you don't want one of those tones to work, you would need to switch it out. You could use your kill switch for that if you wanted (instead of a kill switch) and just switch the line to whichever tone you want to kill. Or you could use the extra DPDT if you don't mind adding a switch to the pickguard. OR, you could make the other tone control a push-pull type and use the switch to disconnect which ever tone you don't want in operation.

Part 2 - Gilmour:

Do you have a schematic of the one you are planning on using?

EDIT: Is the "kill switch" actually the gilmour mod? Adding the neck to any combination?

 

[iH8usrnames]

Does it have the same behavior if you disconnect the gilmour mod?

Yes. Same, regardless of mod engaged.

 

[iH8usrnames]

Part 0 Diagram:

The unused end of the volume pot needs to be grounded to the case.

The kill switch should run from a C terminal to ground to take all signals to ground. Alternatively, it could be from the hot inbound volume pot lug to ground. Then it just dumps the signal to ground.

You need a wire form the outbound V pot to the output jack. The kill switch could also attach to the output jack hot.

Part 1 - Tone:

Current operation is "expected" I guess... you have a tone control on the B pickup. You have one on the M pickup. Get output from both and they will both be in-play. Like a Gibson with two tone controls - on the middle setting, both have an effect on the tone of their respective pickup.

If you don't want one of those tones to work, you would need to switch it out. You could use your kill switch for that if you wanted (instead of a kill switch) and just switch the line to whichever tone you want to kill. Or you could use the extra DPDT if you don't mind adding a switch to the pickguard. OR, you could make the other tone control a push-pull type and use the switch to disconnect which ever tone you don't want in operation.

Part 2 - Gilmour:

Do you have a schematic of the one you are planning on using?

EDIT: Is the "kill switch" actually the gilmour mod? Adding the neck to any combination?

“The unused end of the volume pot needs to be grounded to the case.”
It is, I neglected to include in my drawing. My mistake.

“The kill switch should run from a C terminal to ground to take all signals to ground. Alternatively, it could be from the hot inbound volume pot lug to ground. Then it just dumps the signal to ground.”

Sorry, again. It’s what the switch was labeled as when I created the graphic in illustrator. The switches only purpose is to allow neck pickup to be active with bridge pick up.

The kill switch is the film our mod.

Can you tell I’m new at this?

 

[iH8usrnames]

I've updated the drawing to correct the issues noted by StratUp.

Current config of wiring:



Would doing this allow the T1 and T2 controls to remain completely independent?


Would adding the wire to the T1 from the Gilmour switch enable tone on Neck pickup?



If these seem like very elementary questions, I apologize and just trying to learn.
As mentioned below by StratUp - " only some of them really useful in the field" - this will never be used gigging. I'm a middle aged man trying to learn and piddle about.

Thanks in advance.

 

[StratUp]

“The unused end of the volume pot needs to be grounded to the case.”
It is, I neglected to include in my drawing. My mistake.

“The kill switch should run from a C terminal to ground to take all signals to ground. Alternatively, it could be from the hot inbound volume pot lug to ground. Then it just dumps the signal to ground.”

Sorry, again. It’s what the switch was labeled as when I created the graphic in illustrator. The switches only purpose is to allow neck pickup to be active with bridge pick up.

The kill switch is the film our mod.

Can you tell I’m new at this?

OK... the for the tone pot, the first thing to recognize is that with two in the circuit, you will get the behavior you are seeing. You can adjust the middle, or the bridge. Doing that will have a slightly different effect that you can get with just one master tone control. But only slightly. So, for example, you could dull out the bridge if the M + B is too bright. But there's really a very trivial difference between doing that and just adjusting one master tone control.

If you really want to cut off one tone control, you'll need to wire in a switch as I mentioned. You could remove the bridge tone from the circuit when the M+ B is in use. But I don't really see an advantage.

What might be more useful, since your bridge is a powerful humbucker and rather than another single, might be to set up a master vol & master tone that control everything. Then use the third pot as an "Armstrong Blender" to blend in the neck with other pickups. Or, another preference of mine: make it a volume pot for the (powerful) humbucker so you can blend in as much humbucker as you want in the M + B position to control the sound much better than a tone control. It also works to limit the humbucker so you can get the humbucker sound but at the same volume as your N or N + M. Or higher... if you're heading into a lead.

Lots of possibilities, only some of them really useful in the field!

 

[AngelLaHash]

Think of the Single like CURRENT, the Flow and if it has a path it can flow both ways

Your last Drawing you have the Tone Control path going to the Switch but also hooked up to the Volume meaning its always on.
If you have TWO Tone Pots connected they will always fight
Never done this and im not sure if it will work Diodes also never seen anyone else doing this

 

[Skinny Nitro]

This is a hypothetical diagram using Fender's Discrete/Com switch which is fitted to the Deluxe, Elite, UItra and Am Pro Strats. Both the Am Pro and Ultra restrict T2 to the bridge pickup only. Bridge + middle is T1
This also has the neck pickup toggle switch ("Gilmour mod") wired so it is only available in positions 1 and 2. Again T2 will only work in pos 1 (B+N) and T1 in pos 2 (B+M+N)

 

[iH8usrnames]

Think of the Single like CURRENT, the Flow and if it has a path it can flow both ways

Your last Drawing you have the Tone Control path going to the Switch but also hooked up to the Volume meaning its always on.
If you have TWO Tone Pots connected they will always fight
Never done this and im not sure if it will work Diodes also never seen anyone else doing this

Argh, you are correct.
I was myopic and only thinking about the Gimour mod signal and not the ramifications of it.
I am going snowboarding for a week so I'll have plenty of time to read and maybe understand some of this stuff better.

 

[iH8usrnames]

This is a hypothetical diagram using Fender's Discrete/Com switch which is fitted to the Deluxe, Elite, UItra and Am Pro Strats. Both the Am Pro and Ultra restrict T2 to the bridge pickup only. Bridge + middle is T1
This also has the neck pickup toggle switch ("Gilmour mod") wired so it is only available in positions 1 and 2. Again T2 will only work in pos 1 (B+N) and T1 in pos 2 (B+M+N)

View attachment 634694

A: I really need to know how you folks create these graphics. I used Illustrator and it was a pain in the butt.

I'm going snowboarding for a week so I'll have plenty of time to try to understand this stuff while away.

Would it be easier if I just built a new strat with dedicated tone knobs - 1 per pickup?
I fear I am missing some very fundamental understanding of how tone circuits work.

 

[StratUp]

A: I really need to know how you folks create these graphics. I used Illustrator and it was a pain in the butt.

I'm going snowboarding for a week so I'll have plenty of time to try to understand this stuff while away.

Would it be easier if I just built a new strat with dedicated tone knobs - 1 per pickup?
I fear I am missing some very fundamental understanding of how tone circuits work.

You can get concentric pots. Two pots in one. You'll need concentric knobs. Fender uses them on some basses to get vol/tone on each of the (two) pickups with only one pot location.

You can't get concentric with a switch on it. At least not the I could ever find. So you would have to add a separate toggle to do the humbucker split. If you go that route, I recommend a DPDT with center off - you can set up full humbucker, half split, and single coil that way.

 

[AngelLaHash]

If we are going for a Magical Switch like Skinny Nitro suggested then i would suggest Cutting the tab inside the Switch
Or we could make a S-Type do it by changing the PCB


so it grounds all your Negitive sides
does the Normal N, N+M, M, M+B, B
and on the Tone side it will use 1 one for the first 4 positions and another for when the Bridge is seleceted solo But best to keep it simple

 

[iH8usrnames]

I was away snowboarding for a week in Colorado and came across this video:

Free-Way 10-way switch.
I have an HSS and used this diagram for wiring (there are two HSS options).


I've only had about 20 minutes of playing time with the new switch/wiring scheme due to getting sick when I got home from Colorado. Not covid but seemingly covid related as I had Covid early last month and two weeks after I was negative, the cough started.

*Not that my health of Covid is relevant, I just feel like others may be in the same boat and this can help connect the dots.