How to Love an LP - any tips?

[Stratoman10]

I have both. I like my Les Pauls, I love my Strats. They aren't the same, so use them for what they're good for.

I'm the opposite. I was Fender only for decades. Then I went LP shopping and brought home an SG instead since the price was too good to ignore. A couple of years later I got first LP. I still like my Strat but it's probably the lowest on the totem pole now. If I'm wanting single coils I usually grab the Tele. But 90% of my playing time is on an LP

 

[FoonkySteve]

Can’t you go to a store and try some real Les pauls? Epiphone at least.

I've played a few over the years, never really enjoyed em - Gibson & Epiphone.
There was a Gibson 335 I loved once and one Epiphone "60's tribute" (I think) The neck on that was decent.

The Harley Benton was more appealing, I liked the more contoured neck heel and stainless steel frets

 

[Nadnitram]

Why did you buy it? Per the words you used, there is not anything about an LP that you like....

I'm not in any way trying to answer for the OP.

I buy LPs because I have a short memory. Les Pauls are iconic. Mental images I have of "rock and roll" include Jimmy Page, Duane Allman, Tom Scholz, Slash, Joe Perry, and even David Gilmour with the gold top. I keep getting Les Pauls because I feel like I should have one. So I buy one, remember that I don't have the patience to learn how to play it properly, get rid of it, wonder why I don't have one, buy one, remember that I don't have the patience ...

If you have to ask, don't bother and send it back. This is like me saying, "I've never liked olives, but I bought a big tub of olives and I don't like the taste. Tell me how to like them." Doesn't make much sense.

Have you tried lowering the pickups on those olives?

 

[drp146]

I'm the opposite. I was Fender only for decades. Then I went LP shopping and brought home an SG instead since the price was too good to ignore. A couple of years later I got first LP. I still like my Strat but it's probably the lowest on the totem pole now. If I'm wanting single coils I usually grab the Tele. But 90% of my playing time is on an LP

I played only Gibsons for several decades before I got my first Strat. I'm still into Gibsons, but my number 1 is a Strat. Second is my Gibson GK-55, one of the best Gibsons I've ever played, and third is my Les Paul with P90s.

 

[jrbirdman]

P-90s

 

[Boneman68]

You first have to get an official Gibson Les Paul, then plug into a Marshall amp and crank it, at that point what’s not to love? Must be pointed out, you have to forget the pretenders and look-a-like copies, they are not LPs. For anyone bashing Gibson, you gotta first be playing one, don’t ding them when you are really talking about a Harley Benton, Agile or some other copy. More often than not, people see what a real LP cost and then go and buy the knock-offs for affordability, then go ranting about LPs, but there’s a reason those are more ”affordable”.

 

[dspellman]

Been a Strat guy for 27years.
Just got my first LP style Single Cut guitar. Any tips or tricks before I return it?

I've played a few over the years. Never really enjoyed em.

Not a massive fan of humbuckers in general. This thing sounds a bit too dark & muddy. It's got coil splits, but the volume drop is too dramatic to be useful.
It's "light" for an LP apparently (8lbs) but that's heavy for a strat guy .

Btw it's a Harley Benton SC 25th anniversary. Great specs on paper but...

First, my favorite LP design is an Agile AL-3200. Neck-through construction, carved neck/body join (great upper fret access), 14" radius, hand-filed jumbo frets (but not *too* tall), ebony fretboard, real MOP inlays, yada yada.

I usually string them with 9's the first day (never play an LP with the strings from the factory) and do a "Great Initial Setup". I play with pretty low action, and I've been known to PLEK and superglue the frets (about $315 from my friendly tech) on a $200 guitar. I also make sure the frets are polished to a mirror finish. Most strat players picking up one of my guitars try a bend or two and the first words are, "Oh, crap!" as they find themselves bending a stop and a half accidentally.

The problem with coil splits is that most folks do them with the wrong pickups. A standard humbucker will usually split into a coil that doesn't have as much punch as a strat's base pickups.

My favorite pickup to split was the Carvin M22SD, which is around a 14K pickup that splits into a 7Kohm single coil and sounds great doing so. If you're coming from a strat, and particularly if you're playing on the neck pickup, you'll probably find it "a bit too dark & muddy." Part of that has to do with the size of a humbucker and the fact that you're picking up signal over two separate coils. Part of that has to do with the location of the neck pickup. I have a couple of guitars where I've subbed in a DiMarzio Fast Track II (it sits in the neck pickup ring alongside a Fernandes Sustainer Driver, which is another discussion) in the neck position. Very much cleaner, brighter and punchier. In short, the "dark & muddy" thing can be fixed.

You're coming from the perspective of a Humbucker when you complain about a "volume drop." Obviously, you're taking half the pickup offline when you switch to single coil mode. If you set things up for the single coil split (and have the right pickups) as your basis and then switch to the humbucker, you'll have a volume punch. I have an Ibanez AR-300 from 1982 that came with a pair of "Tri-Sound" switches that selected Serial/Parallel/Single coil for each pickup and I often set up the amp for the single coils. Then when I need a lead boost, switched to Serial (normal humbucker mode).

The weight can't (and shouldn't) be fixed. The small, dense body is what attracted the players in the mid-60's to the LP in the first place. It's part and parcel of the sound and playability of the LP.

The clunky neck heel of most LPs is, like that on a basic strat, something you work around. On the Agile I mentioned above, the transition is smooth and you find yourself able to work higher on the neck with more comfort. That ebony fretboard is smoother, the frets are taller, and playability is pretty amazing. Oh, and it has a tummy cut. It's not quite a strat in the ergonomic department, but it helps.

 

[dspellman]

Get an SG haha.

Seriously though, I want to like les Paul’s but I find them too heavy, not very comfy and I also don’t really like Humbuckers for the reasons you’ve stated.
I’ve got an SG which I love but am fighting to love the humbuckers, I’ve changed the pots to 500k from 300k, removing the covers I think does help a bit, lowering the pickup and raising the pole pieces… I’ve not quite worked out how to nail it every time yet but every now and then (starting to be more often than not) the sounds it makes are just amazing and absolutely worth the effort.
Stick with it

I've got a ton of LPs, but never really found an SG I liked. The design pushes the fretboard to the left (particularly if you're playing with a strap, standing) and most (not all) are neck-heavy, and I find myself trying to support the neck with the palm of my fretting hand, which slows things down. And while the design theoretically allows better upper fret access, the recurved horns always snag on my admittedly extra large hands.

 

[dspellman]

You first have to get an official Gibson Les Paul, then plug into a Marshall amp and crank it, at that point what’s not to love? Must be pointed out, you have to forget the pretenders and look-a-like copies, they are not LPs. For anyone bashing Gibson, you gotta first be playing one, don’t ding them when you are really talking about a Harley Benton, Agile or some other copy. More often than not, people see what a real LP cost and then go and buy the knock-offs for affordability, then go ranting about LPs, but there’s a reason those are more ”affordable”.

I've got stacks of "official Gibson Les Pauls," beginning with some mid-50's Customs (P90s, etc.). I've got Marshall full stacks, Parks and around 15 total tube amps.

Sorry, but I don't think "official Gibson.." has anything to offer over a lot of the alternatives these days. There's no "magic" or mojo to the logo, and a lot of what Gibson is putting out these days needs a lot of tweaking to get it into playing shape. They've eliminated binding, changed pickups and even eliminated finish in some misguided attempts to gain market share in the low ranges, and they just don't have the quality levels in the under-$3500 guitars upon which Gibson's logo gained its reputation. We've done blindfold tests at some guitar shows, some of which included real original '59 bursts, and had some real surprises in the results. Current players are used to a hotter pickup in the bridge (manufacturers bullet point them as a "matched set"), and the original '59s (both pickups are the same) were often relegated to the middle or bottom of the pack, both in sound quality and playability. So much for mojo.

The Agile guitars that began coming out of Korea's World Music have been stunning for 15 years or so. The AL-3000 and 3100 series have Gibson Custom-style features, including multi-layer binding on body and headstock, single layer binding on the fretboard (no nibs, sorry), real ebony fretboards, real MOP or even Abalone block and trap-style inlays, good tuners, uprated Graphtech nuts, Graptech NVS-2 bridges with string saver saddles, some pretty decent AlnicoV pickups and a selection of neck thicknesses and widths. But perhaps even more stunning were the price tags. 15 years ago, those models were in the $350-$400 range, and the reaction on trying one was usually, "You paid HOW much for this guitar?"

These days, Epiphone is producing some excellent guitars in the just-under $1000 range, and Gibson is extending its "lifestyle" range into the $6K and $8K market in an attempt to extract nostalgia money from boomers.

So I've also got a stack (I think 13 at last count) of Agiles, most of which I've picked up used for cheap money. I've only swapped pickups on a few; P-Rails in one, Suhr Aldrich pickups in a couple, Gibson and DiMarzio pickups in some others. Two AL2000F (for Floyd) versions have 24 frets (with an extended neck) and a "tilted" neck heel for better upper fret access. They came with a cheap Floyd, and I've got replacements sitting on a shelf waiting for them to crap out. Surprisingly, that hasn't happened yet, and these are my first set of bar guitars. Their appointments are more "Les Paul Standard" with single layer binding, plastic inlays and rosewood fretboards. One of these currently sports a DiMarzio Super Distortion in the bridge and a Fernandes Sustainer. Another set of bar guitars (slightly more upscale) are the AL-3100 Floyds. Aside from the trems, these are perhaps nearest to LP Customs, except that they have full-thickness maple caps. The Floyds are OFRs, from the same Korean production as the OEM version on my Gibson Axcess Custom.

Switching back to an "authentic" Gibson LP in, say, Standard trim (currently a $3000 guitar) means giving up the ebony fretboard, the 14" radius, the larger frets and the neck width/thickness I prefer, and eliminating the Floyd Rose (heresy!) I use in some part to keep the guitars in tune. The Standard sounds like what an LP sounds like these days, with a hotter bridge pickup. It is related to the original '59 bursts, sharing a crap nitrocellulose finish and the logo. Great.

 

[Papa Che]

Been a Strat guy for 27years.
Just got my first LP style Single Cut guitar. Any tips or tricks before I return it?

I've played a few over the years. Never really enjoyed em.

Not a massive fan of humbuckers in general. This thing sounds a bit too dark & muddy. It's got coil splits, but the volume drop is too dramatic to be useful.
It's "light" for an LP apparently (8lbs) but that's heavy for a strat guy .

Btw it's a Harley Benton SC 25th anniversary. Great specs on paper but...

Ive played many HB guitars since 2014. Never did I like the Roswell pickups. The previous Wilkinson were better. More dynamic. Not sure what the thing is with Roswell pickups. They are just too rigid and have only one sweet spot or not at all. My personal opinion.

If the guitar is well built and there are no major issues with the quality then get good quality pickups and even new pots and maybe do a 50’s wiring which will offer more highs when volume rolled down.

HB guitars are hit and miss. I’ve had fantastic build quality and utter rubbish with deformities and misaligned. Have a good look at fret spacing too! I’ve had wild fret spacing on one HB ST-90 guitar! Lovely guitar but boy oh boy did they space the frets wrongly!

 

[Tsjackson]

I've got a ton of LPs, but never really found an SG I liked. The design pushes the fretboard to the left (particularly if you're playing with a strap, standing) and most (not all) are neck-heavy, and I find myself trying to support the neck with the palm of my fretting hand, which slows things down. And while the design theoretically allows better upper fret access, the recurved horns always snag on my admittedly extra large hands.

Touché

 

[Boneman68]

I've got stacks of "official Gibson Les Pauls," beginning with some mid-50's Customs (P90s, etc.). I've got Marshall full stacks, Parks and around 15 total tube amps.

Sorry, but I don't think "official Gibson.." has anything to offer over a lot of the alternatives these days. There's no "magic" or mojo to the logo, and a lot of what Gibson is putting out these days needs a lot of tweaking to get it into playing shape. They've eliminated binding, changed pickups and even eliminated finish in some misguided attempts to gain market share in the low ranges, and they just don't have the quality levels in the under-$3500 guitars upon which Gibson's logo gained its reputation. We've done blindfold tests at some guitar shows, some of which included real original '59 bursts, and had some real surprises in the results. Current players are used to a hotter pickup in the bridge (manufacturers bullet point them as a "matched set"), and the original '59s (both pickups are the same) were often relegated to the middle or bottom of the pack, both in sound quality and playability. So much for mojo.

The Agile guitars that began coming out of Korea's World Music have been stunning for 15 years or so. The AL-3000 and 3100 series have Gibson Custom-style features, including multi-layer binding on body and headstock, single layer binding on the fretboard (no nibs, sorry), real ebony fretboards, real MOP or even Abalone block and trap-style inlays, good tuners, uprated Graphtech nuts, Graptech NVS-2 bridges with string saver saddles, some pretty decent AlnicoV pickups and a selection of neck thicknesses and widths. But perhaps even more stunning were the price tags. 15 years ago, those models were in the $350-$400 range, and the reaction on trying one was usually, "You paid HOW much for this guitar?"

These days, Epiphone is producing some excellent guitars in the just-under $1000 range, and Gibson is extending its "lifestyle" range into the $6K and $8K market in an attempt to extract nostalgia money from boomers.

So I've also got a stack (I think 13 at last count) of Agiles, most of which I've picked up used for cheap money. I've only swapped pickups on a few; P-Rails in one, Suhr Aldrich pickups in a couple, Gibson and DiMarzio pickups in some others. Two AL2000F (for Floyd) versions have 24 frets (with an extended neck) and a "tilted" neck heel for better upper fret access. They came with a cheap Floyd, and I've got replacements sitting on a shelf waiting for them to crap out. Surprisingly, that hasn't happened yet, and these are my first set of bar guitars. Their appointments are more "Les Paul Standard" with single layer binding, plastic inlays and rosewood fretboards. One of these currently sports a DiMarzio Super Distortion in the bridge and a Fernandes Sustainer. Another set of bar guitars (slightly more upscale) are the AL-3100 Floyds. Aside from the trems, these are perhaps nearest to LP Customs, except that they have full-thickness maple caps. The Floyds are OFRs, from the same Korean production as the OEM version on my Gibson Axcess Custom.

Switching back to an "authentic" Gibson LP in, say, Standard trim (currently a $3000 guitar) means giving up the ebony fretboard, the 14" radius, the larger frets and the neck width/thickness I prefer, and eliminating the Floyd Rose (heresy!) I use in some part to keep the guitars in tune. The Standard sounds like what an LP sounds like these days, with a hotter bridge pickup. It is related to the original '59 bursts, sharing a crap nitrocellulose finish and the logo. Great.

Oh I know all about Agile, had one since 2003, it was alright.

Then I got the real thing (2022) and haven’t looked back.

 

[dspellman]

As others have said lower to pick up I don't know how hot these pickups are but you may have to lower them flush with the mounting rings, and adjust the EQ take some bass out of it, and if you have an opportunity play them through 10-in speakers rather than 12s.

It ain't the *size* of the speakers that makes a difference.

I have 15" Eminence Kappalite 3015LF low frequency speakers in a couple of my cabinets. 12" Eminence Kappalite 3012LF in another cabinet. Frequency response is the same, both will handle up to 900W. They make the same speaker in a 10" version, same specs. The difference is in the sensitivity and the volume level.

Friend of mine plays bass in a club through a tiny cabinet with two 8" bass speakers. No shortage of bottom end and that little sucker covers that club (I think he's pushing them with a tiny 500W solid state amp).

A lot of us have studio monitors with 5" and/or 8" bass drivers (plus a tweeter, usually), and those 8" speakers cover down to 35Hz all day long.

On the other hand... I have a 4x10" open back cabinet (Carvin made 'em to go with their Nomad/Belair style amp heads) that has, I dunno, their equivalent of Jensens, I think. Magical thing. Side by side with a Marshall 4x12, the difference is amazing, and even more so with an amp head with a Fender-style tone stack rather than a Marshall.

 

[Quikstyl]

Been a Strat guy for 27years.
Just got my first LP style Single Cut guitar. Any tips or tricks before I return it?

I've played a few over the years. Never really enjoyed em.

Not a massive fan of humbuckers in general. This thing sounds a bit too dark & muddy. It's got coil splits, but the volume drop is too dramatic to be useful.
It's "light" for an LP apparently (8lbs) but that's heavy for a strat guy .

Btw it's a Harley Benton SC 25th anniversary. Great specs on paper but...

I've found in my 34+ years of playing that I enjoy Les Paul's more with a 17" diameter neck. And 24 frets. And a Floyd Rose. And be a Strat.

 

[dspellman]

Oh I know all about Agile, had one since 2003, it was alright.
View attachment 649163
Then I got the real thing (2022) and haven’t looked back.
View attachment 649164

'Grats!

BTW, that is an OLD Agile (2003 would be Agile's "early days") compared to what they're putting out now.

That headstock is long gone, which is probably a nod to a Gibson cease and desist letter (or the threat of one). I have, I believe, just one headstock like that, and it's on a big old Agile "Cool Cat" thick hollow body guitar that's a kin to a Gretsch. Current headstock looks like the hair on the Bob's Big Boy statue. It would be fun to compare yours against what they're putting out now.

I don't think I have anything *against* Gibsons... My first guitars were ES-335s, both a 6 and a 12-string from about '67. Not many serious copycats in those days. It was mostly Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, Guild, some Riks and some weird Japanese concoctions that were sold out of gas stations, etc. Working in a music store, I took in trade-ins that weren't rock and roll popular, so I snagged things like a Super 400, L5, an ES-175, etc. Three mid-50's LP Customs came my way (one of them cost me $75!), but I didn't play them much thanks to the super low frets. I've got several '70's oddities (L5S, L6S, etc.) and more, before I actually spent much time with LPs. I thought they were heavy, clunky and "your dad's guitar."

At some point in the '80's, I got into all kinds of things non-Gibson, including seven Carvins (V220, a couple of DC-150s, a bunch of superstrats, etc.), a Yamaha, a couple of Ibanezeses and even a Samick superstrat. The point is that I began noticing that there were really high-quality guitars from other brands, and that a lot of these weren't as expensive as the Gibson alternatives. And Gibson went through a really noticeable period of quality issues, particularly related to their fretwork. So when the Agiles began catching my notice (which would have been some time after your guitar was built), their quality compared to the price was surprising.

 

[dspellman]

P-90s

Love P90s. Gibson P90s are my benchmark. I have one from a 1949 ES-175 that's my oldest example. Nearly 75 years old and it sounds great.

They were left alone for a long time because they weren't anywhere near as popular as humbuckers. And then they got discovered. And pickup manufacturers had to have marketing bullet points, so they under wound them, over wound them, and mostly those are less than wonderful in terms of outcome. The under wound ones are anemic and emasculated, but they have less noise. The over wound versions lose some frequencies and have a lot more noise.

There are "noiseless" versions, some of which sound unlike a P90. The only ones I buy are Kinmans, which are stupid expensive. But they sound the most like my Gibson P90s.

I have LPs with P90s, and one LP Special-alike with what turned out to be my cheapest P90s. Looks like this:

Friend of mine found this in a shop in Vancouver for $130 and shipped it down to me in LA. Great guitar, nice neck, mahogany body and neck, rosewood fretboard with plastic trap inlays, etc. Nice and light. The previous owner had the P90s that were in it replaced with a set of Mike Reilander hand-wound P90s (around $200 for a set). I don't know what the originals sounded like, but these are on the money. Friend of mine has a $5K original '58 (I think) version of this same guitar with a Gibson logo, so we sat around one night swapping them back and forth. In the end we decided the two guitars sounded pretty much identical, but this one was easier to play. His definitely needs some setup love.

 

[abnormaltoy]

It ain't the *size* of the speakers that makes a difference

I disagree. I think tens sound a little tighter, on the bottom end. Maybe this is a tonewood type argument. Speaker choice definitely has an effect on tone, as does the shape of and volume of a speaker cabinet, and whether or not it's open or closed back. In fact, if I'm ever able to afford a particular Marshall clone amp head I want to get a 4x10 cabinet to go with it.

 

[jvin248]

.

+1 lower the pickup heights so they are level with the trim rings.

Raise the screw poles 3/16ths inch, bridge pickup keep the screws level to each other, neck pickup drop the screws to match the 'Strat Stagger'. No the stagger is 'not right' but so many famous songs were recorded with staggered poles that sound has become 'the right sound'.

I'd rotate the bridge pickup 180deg so the screw poles are on the neck facing bobbin for a great P90 tone.

If still too muddy, put a 0.047uF capacitor in series with the muddy pickup(s) hot lead, generally easy where they are soldered to the switch.

.

 

[dspellman]

I've found in my 34+ years of playing that I enjoy Les Paul's more with a 17" diameter neck. And 24 frets. And a Floyd Rose. And be a Strat.

Take a look at the Line 6 Variax JTV-89F. 16" radius fretboard, 24 jumbo frets, Floyd Rose, two slightly hot humbuckers, superstrat style body.



The nut width is 1 3/4", but the bridge width is standard, so the extra sixteenth of an inch disappears as you move up the fretboard. Master Volume, Master Tone and two rotary Variax switches (that look like additional MV pots) and a five-way. The trem is an OFR (FRO these days, I guess) with Graphtech Ghost piezo saddles. If the electronics aren't used or engaged, the two humbuckers work in a standard way (there's a diagram that indicates what happens with the two "in between" positions). The Les Paul "both pickups selected" middle position works...like a Les Paul. Scale is 25.5"

The guitar ($1400 these days for the "standard" version), switched into Variax mode, changes everything. The two additional "pots" become active and you can select from the built-in guitar models (335, tele, strat, LP, several acoustic models, etc.), about 28 in all, including models of the JTV-89F itself. The second pot is the Alternate Tuning switch, and you can choose from a bunch of factory-installed tunings, including (on this particular guitar) a lot of down and drop tunings.

There's a computer-based WORKSHOP software that will allow you to tweak the guitar modeling software... a lot...and install your changes on the guitar. You can also change the alternate tunings to a whole different set, either on the guitar or in the software, loading everything into the guitar as you wish.

But wait, there's more. If you have a Line 6 product with the "Variax" input (this includes the Helix, the HD500 series and more), you can add selections to your user presets and, with the use of a Variax VDI cable (essentially a "hardened" ethernet cable, so a standard ethernet cable can be used in a pinch), you can change guitar model and tuning, along with amps/cabs/FX, all with a single stomp.

But wait, there's still more. You can set things up in the Helix/HD500/computer software so that the Volume and Tone knobs on the guitar become parameter changers for all of this. There are videos that illustrate what can be done there (again, it's done with the guitar cabled to the Helix/HD500). The results available are stunning.

The models are actually very good; one of the telecaster models was chosen over real telecasters by Mutt Lange to accompany his then-wife, Shania Twain, on her first live tour. The 335, strat and LP models are exceptional. The guitars they modeled are out at Line 6 in Calabasas; you can actually A/B them there, but I didn't get around to the Riks, the Gretsches, the acoustics. The alternate tunings drop an entire octave if you want them to, which allows you to essentially play bass on the guitar. I've set up one of the alternate tuning selections to imitate Keef's telecaster (you don't have to rip off a string to imitate his five-string tele; you can actually mute that sixth string electronically) in Open G.

There are two versions of the guitar. The standard versions are Korean-built, and there are a whole TWO colors available: Black and "Blood Red". If you want other colors, there's an American-built version (for about three times the Korean-built version) that comes with a G&G hard case and things like Hipshot tuners. I tried out the USA versions and bought two of the Korean versions, which play and sound identical to the USA versions. The electronics are identical, as are the humbuckers. But with the USA versions, you have a wider choice of colors. I have too many black guitars, so I went with blood red on both. *sigh*

 

[nadzab]

Have you tried lowering the pickups on those olives?

That is a great idea, but I actually did find a way to tolerate them…