When you say "stamp on paint" that makes me curious... you gonna share this pic with us?
Factory original 65 Firemist Gold strat, what do these stamps mean
- Thread starter 64blackstrat
- Start date
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
the Tele is not for sale and i usually prefer not to put pics of my guitars on the net if i am not selling, my personal collection i keep to myself, there is nothing to see, it is a ink stamp 818 on the paint on a section of the body under the pickgaurd, exactly same stamp 818 as on my strat except no letter,
Okay - if you believe you know what the stamps mean, and then also admit you have a pic of a similar stamp on another guitar in your possession ---but don't want to share that with us--- then why start this thread in the first place?
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
i dont believe i know what stamps mean, i said i am guessing, i explained how i am still a learner i don't preach or stand on a high pedestal thinking i am some kind of know all,
i explained why i prefer to not show my tele why isn't that good enough? its a stamp, its on my tele not my strat which is in question
of course i could show u but really why, its just a stamp same as my strat
maybe you think i am full of BS here is that the problem? don't you believe me when i say i have a firemist 68 tele with a 818 stamp?
by the way i only spotted this stamp on my tele yesterday, after i started going thru pics, thats after i started this thread, i have owned my tele for over 20 years and its stored, i dont look at pics every day, i dont recall seeing this stamp when i took pics of the tele over 20 years ago, but looking now at my old pics i see the stamp is there.
richardb64
Strat-Talker
Sorry if I wasn’t clear with my comment about you linking to your site. It wasn’t meant in any way to suggest you were doing it to market the guitar or drum up business. I know it was in response to a request for more pics. My point was that once the pics are out there, people on this site are going to comment on them, that was it.
Cool that you have a tele with that stamp under the guard, I’ve seen them there too. I know that you think it’s all “guesses” regarding them being date codes and you are looking for documentation but there are a lot of them out there and my view is that it’s “extremely likely” that it’s a date code used only in late 67 to about early 69 for some reason we’ll probably never know. They were on various Fenders of the period, not just strats and teles, always conformed to a week number (I.e. never more than 52) after what seems to be the year. Common are 744, 750, 752, 806, 809, 818 and pretty much all of them have other features on the instrument that would support it being the week number and the year. The codes appear on the flat of neck heels too and I’ve owned one for example that was FEB 68B with B809 on the flat of the heel.
I’m pretty convinced the body of your guitar was painted in the factory in early 1968. It looks like it only ever had one paint stick in there, so the 72 “refin” stamp under the guard is a bit of a mystery. Could have been returned by a customer going for gold but then why the black underneath?
Could be that somebody back in the 70s had a plain old sunburst 65 strat and decided to transplant all the parts to the gold body they had lying around. That’s a real possibility in my view but definitely speculation!
Good luck with it.
Cool that you have a tele with that stamp under the guard, I’ve seen them there too. I know that you think it’s all “guesses” regarding them being date codes and you are looking for documentation but there are a lot of them out there and my view is that it’s “extremely likely” that it’s a date code used only in late 67 to about early 69 for some reason we’ll probably never know. They were on various Fenders of the period, not just strats and teles, always conformed to a week number (I.e. never more than 52) after what seems to be the year. Common are 744, 750, 752, 806, 809, 818 and pretty much all of them have other features on the instrument that would support it being the week number and the year. The codes appear on the flat of neck heels too and I’ve owned one for example that was FEB 68B with B809 on the flat of the heel.
I’m pretty convinced the body of your guitar was painted in the factory in early 1968. It looks like it only ever had one paint stick in there, so the 72 “refin” stamp under the guard is a bit of a mystery. Could have been returned by a customer going for gold but then why the black underneath?
Could be that somebody back in the 70s had a plain old sunburst 65 strat and decided to transplant all the parts to the gold body they had lying around. That’s a real possibility in my view but definitely speculation!
Good luck with it.
richardb64
Strat-Talker
And just to address your point on the body contours between 1965 and early 1968, my experience has been that you’d be hard pressed to tell them apart. There was nothing really characteristic about 1965 and 1968 that you’d be definitively be able to tell one from the other, the differentiation comes from the finish and the marks in the neck pocket in my view. If you had 10 random unfinished original bodies on the table ranging from 1965 to 1968, I honestly don’t believe you could sort them by year just going by the contours.
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
Richard, its all good, yes i guess a 68 refin is a real possibility , my research so far i am not seeing stamps on any say pre 67 strats or any fenders but i will be taking more notice from now on, my 68 tele also has that same T shaped paint stick tape mark in the neck pocket like the strat, but no stamp, just a big number 3 in red texture,
i take pics of all my guitars when i buy them all stripped down, i guess we all do, but its been 20 years since i have actually studied the tele pics and now i see stamp and the T shape, 818 on both, but i cant believe 18 means 18th week, that means i have 2 firemist guitars from the 18th week very unlikely, and tele neck is march 3, so it dont match up, but i hear u refin 68 im open to that....
i take pics of all my guitars when i buy them all stripped down, i guess we all do, but its been 20 years since i have actually studied the tele pics and now i see stamp and the T shape, 818 on both, but i cant believe 18 means 18th week, that means i have 2 firemist guitars from the 18th week very unlikely, and tele neck is march 3, so it dont match up, but i hear u refin 68 im open to that....
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
i have seen many times various websites showing the differences in strat bodies over the years, although i have never gone to the trouble of actually lining up say a 65 next to a 68 to actually check, as my collecting has always been 65 or older i don't and have never owned any past 65...( except 82 to 84 fullerton avris ) , but what i might do is get out my 64 black and 65 fiesta strat and line them up besides the firemist and look for these contour differences i see in pics on websites, obviously i expect the firemist to be exactly same as my other 2, but who knows i might get a surprize
sikoniko
Strat-O-Master
I think at this point it is all speculation, since no documentation exists with the guitar from the original owner. The real question, in my mind, is what is the value, based on the uncertainty? I expect the seller will think its worth more and the buyer will use it to negotiate lower - especially if the buyer is a dealer. what it does have going for it is markings that it was over-sprayed the custom color in the fender factory. how much would that effect the value? tough to say. depends on the buyer. a few collectors I know are insecure about buying a fender custom color already.. this would probably scare them off, tbh.
btw - a buddy of mine worked for Gruhn in the 80s as a part time job. He said Gruhn is a smart guy, but his expertise really lies in acoustics. I've never met him, so I don't know. YMMV.
btw - a buddy of mine worked for Gruhn in the 80s as a part time job. He said Gruhn is a smart guy, but his expertise really lies in acoustics. I've never met him, so I don't know. YMMV.
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
i decided to put a pic of my tele up , this is just to show the 818 stamp on body, zoom in on the pic, as said its a stamp nothing more to see, but u can also see the neck pocket, tele is march 68, so 818 on tele and E818 on strat, ok appreciate all the thoughts, i think we have covered it all by now
i will get around to checking body shape against my other 64 and 65, i realize the difference may be minimal or nothing at all, i know pickup cavity's around on 69 got bigger more square , but really i guess body shape in 68 might not be a big enough difference to 65 to make a definite difference, not sure, but i will have a look just for curiosity
i will get around to checking body shape against my other 64 and 65, i realize the difference may be minimal or nothing at all, i know pickup cavity's around on 69 got bigger more square , but really i guess body shape in 68 might not be a big enough difference to 65 to make a definite difference, not sure, but i will have a look just for curiosity
Attachments
Cool! Looks right. Notice the same tape shadow in the neck-pocket?
With the date theory, I know you were saying a page or so back it would be a major coincidence for two Firemist Golds to occur on the same date. My own thought is that being a very special colour, finishing two guitars simultaneously in that colour is not beyond the realms of possibility. In the photos, the colour of the gold under the pickguard looks identical. Is this true in real life? Could well be the same batch of paint.
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
i cant tell u right now my guitars are stashed everywhere, some i have not seen in many years, i know purist players would hate hearing that, but i collected most many years ago before the boom times, like a 62 black strat $475 ha crazy....but if i except the current offer on the strat i will be pulling it down 1 last time to go over it again just to be sure i have not missed anything, the buyer is major player in the usa, i dont want to send it and find out i missed something, thing is i am not fussed if i sell or not, so 100% total honesty here as it always should be, when i pull it down i might compare to my tele colour, dont think i have had them together before cant remember
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
and the number 3 in red on both.....
Right. Similarities again.
Thanks for posting the Tele pic.
To me it's even more curious now seeing the stamp on top of the painted body (instead of on an exposed wood area). It begs the question: if the stamp indeed represented a paint code to a factory worker, then why would it be on top of the paint -- AFTER the body's been painted -- but yet not be in the neck pocket?
To me it's even more curious now seeing the stamp on top of the painted body (instead of on an exposed wood area). It begs the question: if the stamp indeed represented a paint code to a factory worker, then why would it be on top of the paint -- AFTER the body's been painted -- but yet not be in the neck pocket?
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
maybe still a code for firemist gold verse say shoreline gold, to let anyone know at first glance what gold it is...although shoreline is long gone, so only one gold then, so shouldn't need a stamp to confirm
but good point maybe not a paint code, but as said i doubt i own 2 firemist made the same week going by 818, ( 18th ) so hard to believe its a date code for 18th week, i mean whats the chances of owning 2 fiiremist guitars made in the 18th week....
could it be a inspectors code, maybe in time the info will surface , but at this point i have spoke to all the gurus i know and they just do not know
As I suggested, if it's a special gold paint that was required there's every chance. If these two were done with the same paint mix you're a lucky owner I'd say. Sell them together!
64blackstrat
Strat-Talk Member
hi thanks for all the opinions, thoughts and all, its always good to hear from a pool of collectors to get some facts, or guess's, it all helps, well the Firemist has sold as predicted, going to a major collector in the usa, fully aware of the questions and totally happy with that, see u all on another adventure in the future
