1960 strat

gotzz

Strat-Talker
Aug 28, 2010
249
Croatia
Hi everyone,
I have been reading this forum for a long time but hardly ever posting anything, mostly as I was and still am a big fan of Fender JV guitars, had many hundreds of them so you could say I know every little detail about them :) But I am fairly new to preCBS world so maybe someone here can say a word or two about this strat that is for sale - https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/annonce-1811807
I really want preCBS strat, lefty to be precise, but I would be very happy with a mirrored one too, like this one :D
I'm more into battered player pieces, to me old one that looks like new just doesn't do the justice, and I have been conviced many times that the best ones are the worst ones (in condition), at least when you're buying without trying it first.
 

weslito2

Strat-Talk Member
Mar 13, 2019
36
NJ
Hi everyone,
I have been reading this forum for a long time but hardly ever posting anything, mostly as I was and still am a big fan of Fender JV guitars, had many hundreds of them so you could say I know every little detail about them :) But I am fairly new to preCBS world so maybe someone here can say a word or two about this strat that is for sale - https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/annonce-1811807
I really want preCBS strat, lefty to be precise, but I would be very happy with a mirrored one too, like this one :D
I'm more into battered player pieces, to me old one that looks like new just doesn't do the justice, and I have been conviced many times that the best ones are the worst ones (in condition), at least when you're buying without trying it first.

Hi, I’m trying to decipher what your question is. The guitar electronics look pretty good from a distance, but I’d ask to see detailed pics of the interior of of cavity, neck pocket, you’d want multimeter measurements of pickups and better pics of them as well. Neck rosewood should be slab with pencil date. I can give more details if you let me know what you are looking for. I’m sure other guys on here will chime in.

I have a strat from December 1960.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

gotzz

Strat-Talker
Aug 28, 2010
249
Croatia
Before I take any serious action I was wondering if any of you can see something suspicious from the pics. To me that doesn't look like slab for example.. hmm. He asks 13000€
 

xke38

Strat-Talker
Jan 13, 2010
278
1st floor
As Weslito says, you need more pics, e.g. so you can check nail holes or dowels (if visible) etc. You should also ask for a photo of the underside of the neck heel, which, in addition to the screw holes should have a tooling hole, also to be found on the headstock beneath the D-tuner.

Well spotted that the neck doesn't seem to be a slab-board. The headstock decal has three patent numbers, which is correct for a '63, so maybe the neck was also replaced when it went back to the factory in '63.

Fender may also have marked part of the serial number beneath the pickguard for matching purposes when the refin was made.
 

weslito2

Strat-Talk Member
Mar 13, 2019
36
NJ
As Weslito says, you need more pics, e.g. so you can check nail holes or dowels (if visible) etc. You should also ask for a photo of the underside of the neck heel, which, in addition to the screw holes should have a tooling hole, also to be found on the headstock beneath the D-tuner.

Well spotted that the neck doesn't seem to be a slab-board. The headstock decal has three patent numbers, which is correct for a '63, so maybe the neck was also replaced when it went back to the factory in '63.

Fender may also have marked part of the serial number beneath the pickguard for matching purposes when the refin was made.

Here are pics of my neck for reference.
ce4ffade3e6da1dcc22db83edab3d023.jpg

951db6a9424cd89d9041158e34f7cd34.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Bazz Jass

Chairman of the Fingerboard
Silver Member
Nov 19, 2014
5,798
Off the map
The headstock decal has three patent numbers, which is correct for a '63, so maybe the neck was also replaced when it went back to the factory in '63.

Or maybe the decal was replaced at the time. The angle don't quite let you see if it's a slab board. For that money the seller should absolutely be supplying more photos. Neck date etc..
 

Mipstoo

Senior Stratmaster
Mar 18, 2013
2,200
Rockingham Palace
This guitar to me is a question mark... @Adam Wolfaardt You remember?

It was authenticated by someone I trust as a 1960 guitar, sent back to Fender in 1964 for a factory refin. You'll see that in the additional pictures I provide.

I must however admit that I have some doubts, but I have not seen the guitar in person, nor have I had more detailed pictures than the ones provided. It looks like a curved board at the headstock but a slab board at the neck heel, which is odd. Secondly, according the the evaluator, the pickguard was made in 1964 to accomodate the guitar earlier screw pattern. According to the seller the guitar was sent back for a wood bacteria treatment and thus had a complete body/neck refin, so this explains the later logo (three patent numbers), which is also in line with the factory refin body and neck markings.

I would ask more pictures, before moving ahead. I think the last price he asked was 13k€.

70621235_2486488891418999_5875435563514855424_n.jpg 79187215_2658880467513173_4538209972785250304_n.jpg 70891088_2486489044752317_8750151320410783744_n.jpg 71588566_2486489061418982_3889982988435324928_n.jpg 78840853_2658886067512613_6628861737351249920_n.jpg 80029403_2658880470846506_639534971270201344_n.jpg 79801395_2658886070845946_4200816325766938624_n.jpg 78773728_2658888267512393_8269431071376932864_n.jpg 70961058_2497955633605658_7426405918331371520_n.jpg 71035909_2497969306937624_4986703862426501120_n.jpg
 

gretev

Strat-O-Master
Oct 22, 2013
707
Switzerland
Hi everyone,
I have been reading this forum for a long time but hardly ever posting anything, mostly as I was and still am a big fan of Fender JV guitars, had many hundreds of them so you could say I know every little detail about them :) But I am fairly new to preCBS world so maybe someone here can say a word or two about this strat that is for sale - https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/annonce-1811807
I really want preCBS strat, lefty to be precise, but I would be very happy with a mirrored one too, like this one :D
I'm more into battered player pieces, to me old one that looks like new just doesn't do the justice, and I have been conviced many times that the best ones are the worst ones (in condition), at least when you're buying without trying it first.

Wow what a Strat! Very rare to see a 1960 with a sunburst like that with the red still intact and unfaded! Looks amazing!
 

xke38

Strat-Talker
Jan 13, 2010
278
1st floor
Or maybe the decal was replaced at the time. The angle don't quite let you see if it's a slab board. For that money the seller should absolutely be supplying more photos. Neck date etc..

That seems to be the case, as there would be no reason to stamp the repair number on both the body and the neck if the neck had been replaced. As Mipstoo has pointed out, a slab board with no curve at the nut/headstock is mysterious though.
 

Miotch

Most Honored Senior Member
Jun 28, 2011
5,316
ok
One of the best looking I've seen in a long time. I no nothing about authenticity, however. I just like it.
 

gotzz

Strat-Talker
Aug 28, 2010
249
Croatia
I asked for some detailed photos, we'll see if he ever sends any.

Btw what does that "93" on the body and neck means?
 

maidenroad

Strat-Talk Member
Sep 27, 2016
49
France
This guitar to me is a question mark... @Adam Wolfaardt You remember?

It was authenticated by someone I trust as a 1960 guitar, sent back to Fender in 1964 for a factory refin. You'll see that in the additional pictures I provide.

I must however admit that I have some doubts, but I have not seen the guitar in person, nor have I had more detailed pictures than the ones provided. It looks like a curved board at the headstock but a slab board at the neck heel, which is odd. Secondly, according the the evaluator, the pickguard was made in 1964 to accomodate the guitar earlier screw pattern. According to the seller the guitar was sent back for a wood bacteria treatment and thus had a complete body/neck refin, so this explains the later logo (three patent numbers), which is also in line with the factory refin body and neck markings.

I would ask more pictures, before moving ahead. I think the last price he asked was 13k€.

I had the same interrogation on the Neck. It looks like a curved board at the headstock but a slab board at the neck heel...
moreover the pickguard is very white for a 1960 nitrate guard. If it was changed in 64 the screw between the middle and neck pickups shouldn’t be on the center but shift to the middle pickup
 

Bazz Jass

Chairman of the Fingerboard
Silver Member
Nov 19, 2014
5,798
Off the map
I had the same interrogation on the Neck. It looks like a curved board at the headstock but a slab board at the neck heel...
moreover the pickguard is very white for a 1960 nitrate guard. If it was changed in 64 the screw between the middle and neck pickups shouldn’t be on the center but shift to the middle pickup

It's not just the colour of the guard. The black layer is too thin. It's a much later guard. 80s at least:
78840853_2658886067512613_6628861737351249920_n-jpg.399394
 

ripgtr

Most Honored Senior Member
Feb 16, 2012
5,435
austin
Wow what a Strat! Very rare to see a 1960 with a sunburst like that with the red still intact and unfaded! Looks amazing!

Yea, they claim it is a refin. That is not 1960, they used dark brown, not black. I don't know what they did in '64 when this was supposedly refined.

My question on that is,there is the paint stick in the neck pocket, ok. But if it were a 1960 body, they didn't use a stick then, and it would be a really dark brown all the way across. Ok, maybe the stripped the paint, but they stripped the neck pocket too? Seems like extra work for nothing, I don't know, I'd need to see more refins from that period but that did catch my eye. Maybe they stripped it by dunking the whole body into a vat of something, other than that, there should be paint there.
 

ripgtr

Most Honored Senior Member
Feb 16, 2012
5,435
austin
I had the same interrogation on the Neck. It looks like a curved board at the headstock but a slab board at the neck heel...
moreover the pickguard is very white for a 1960 nitrate guard. If it was changed in 64 the screw between the middle and neck pickups shouldn’t be on the center but shift to the middle pickup

Just looked at mine, which I know is curved, it is obviously curved. And goes further into the headstock, that one is too close to the nut where it ends.
 

ripgtr

Most Honored Senior Member
Feb 16, 2012
5,435
austin
It's not just the colour of the guard. The black layer is too thin. It's a much later guard. 80s at least:

Hard to say on the thickness, but looking at mine, I suspect you are right. And yea, way too white. And the pickup covers look too white to me. Though I admit my does have a few bar hours on it. :) So can't be sure, but yea. There are a lot of question here.
 

ripgtr

Most Honored Senior Member
Feb 16, 2012
5,435
austin
And yea, not a '60 decal. Factory would have replaced that if they refinished the neck though. But wouldn't that remove the pencil written date on the neck butt?
 

gotzz

Strat-Talker
Aug 28, 2010
249
Croatia
Too much questiomarks with this one, plus he didn't reply anything on my asking for additional pics
 


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